AIBU to think this is an unreasonable expectation for a three year old?

[Stealthsewist]

I have a three year old who goes to nursery 4 days a week. In general I really like the nursery but there is one member of staff who works in my son’s room and I think she has a real issue with him, and that her expectations for his behaviour aren’t fair.

I think it’s relevant to include that my son is very tall for his age, easily the height of a child who is a year or two older, and he’s also very articulate. I know it sounds like a brag and I’m sorry, but it’s just because I think it’s a contributing factor to this situation. He speaks like a five year old, i.e. completely fluently and in complex and grammatically correct sentences. He has other areas where he struggles - by no means do I think he’s abnormally gifted or talented, just that in this one particular area he’s ahead of the curve.

Anyway, to the main point - several times in the last few weeks this one staff member has spoken to me at pick-up about her concerns. These include the following:

• twice in the last 5/6 weeks my son (who has been potty trained for over a year) has had accidents at nursery. I’m not sure why as I can’t remember the last time he had an accident while at home, but in any event I don’t think it’s a big deal for a three year old to have an occasional accident. However, this staff member has said to me ‘we need to solve this as he cant keep deciding it’s better to pee himself than use the toilet. He has to learn there are consequences for not using the loo’.
• there was an incident where another child, who is nearly a year older than my son, hit my son and my son hit him back. Neither child was hurt. I would of course expect the nursery to deal with this in the moment and then let me know for info, but when this staff member told me she said ‘your son has got to learn to control himself, he’s so much bigger than [older child] that he could really hurt him’. Which I appreciate is the case and I expect the nursery to manage children’s behaviour so that they don’t get hurt, but this is the first time my son has hit another child, and there didn’t seem to be any acknowledgment of the fact that the other child hit him first and is much older.
• my son will sometimes scream when he’s very frustrated or is asked to do something. We’ve been working on this a lot as I appreciate it’s a pain to listen to. When it happens at home we help him regulate and then discuss / model how he can express his feelings better. This approach has been really successful - the screaming happens very rarely now. But this staff member has spoken to me twice to indicate that it’s a serious issue and that ‘because he can express himself clearly when he’s frustrated we know he is just choosing not to, and that’s not good’. I don’t think it’s fair to characterise it this way. He can often express his emotions clearly but he is still only 3 and I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect him to have mastered impulse control and self discipline, or to view this as him being deliberately difficult just because sometimes he can clearly articulate why something has upset him.
• this is more minor but adds context - three times I have had to correct her that he is three not four, and on one of those occasions she asked me what year he was born as though she thought I had miscalculated his age or something.

AIBU and PFB to feel that this woman has unreasonable expectations of my son? He’s clearly far from perfect because he’s 3 and still learning how to be a human, but I feel like she expects so much more from him than one would usually expect from a 3yo. I want to speak to the nursery manager to address it but I want a sense check first in case I need to hear that he is unique among 3 year olds in behaving in these ways!

I think she has a bit of a point in that because he is in a group setting he has to fit in with the group expectations, ie regulating temper, learning "kind hands", being aware of toileting etc. All kids learn at different rates - my ds was advanced in areas like speaking, motor skills, but lazy as anything with being too busy to go to the toilet. The trouble with a nursery setting is that they can't teach them organically like we would at home. We prepare and teach our kids at home the toileting, temper, patience, etc so that they are better prepared for nursery. Try not to take the comments to heart - yes they are criticisms, but they are constructive, and if you didn't get the feedback, you wouldn't know what needed working on.
Just edited to say that if you genuinely think this is more than constructive helpful advice and more of a conflict of personality, see if the nursery can assign a different key worker.
Second edit - my dc were both a year old when they started, and I know the staff could tell a difference between the more institutionalised kids and those who had just started for the preschool year.

Used to work as a teacher for kids this age: Her attitude is rotten. Yes, his accidents need to be addressed, especially if he’s potty trained and they’re occurring seemingly out of nowhere. However, he could just be so absorbed in what he’s doing, he forgets. Hardly the first child to do so, so 2 accidents wouldn’t have me hitting the roof.

As for the hitting incident, for the first child to hit means that the teacher was probably not paying adequate attention. For your child to have time to react & hit back, it definitely means she wasn’t paying close enough attention. Yes, things happen, but that’s why there’s supposed to be more than one adult in the room. In Ireland, at this age, it’s 1 adult to 11 children, so if the class is a standard 22, there should be a minimum of 2 adults. Ask for a copy of their policies on this. Ultimately however, it was a random incident, or she wasn’t paying close enough attention.

Again, screaming when he’s frustrated, while unpleasant, is not uncommon for a child his age. Screaming, tantrums, etc are commonplace for a nursery, and frankly, if she can’t deal with it properly herself, then she’s in the wrong job. It sounds like it’s being managed at home, which further adds to that.

I would however give her a break on his age. It’s more than likely there’s ages in that class ranging from 2.5 - 5 (maybe not, but I know in my class a few times, we had that range due to language barriers, additional needs, etc). So getting it wrong is fair enough - though the acting as though you’ve gotten your own child’s age wrong is bizarre.

Ultimately, if you’re not happy with the level of care your son is receiving, you have every right to address this. I have seen firsthand that some teachers just do not have the patience for children at all, especially not children who don’t just put their heads down and stay quiet.

ETA: I’ve seen fully grown trained adults who CHOSE to become teachers be outright hostile to children as young as 2-3 because they “didn’t like them” or the child was “difficult.” So I fully believe you OP if you feel this teacher is singling your son out, because it IS possible.

It usually bugs me when people say 36 months rather than 3 but in your case I think I’d start using it. Taller children who speak well are perceived as being older than they are and therefore held to a higher standard of behaviour.

Tbh it should be the other way around with the peeing issue. Not consequences but rewards for remembering
Children of that age get so absorbed in wha they are doing or can't recognise that the sensation of needing to go is going to lead to an accident, until its too late

Is he holding himself together to such an extent that he is unable to communicate his needs? Articulacy isn't the same as being able to share your needs.

The lashing out might be for similar reasons.

Is this nursery serving him well on other levels ? It seems very keen on him fitting in

My son was extremely articulate and intelligent and even I may say empathetic but he displayed some of your sons behaviours even aged 4 and 5. Full time nursery would never have worked for him. He did 3 hours a day and that was enough. He was later diagnosed with autism at 7. I don't want to alarm you but the nursery is asking him to" behave" instead of looking at his development in a holistic fashion. Even if he was four they should still be helping and encouraging him.

Thank you all for thoughtful & helpful replies.

It does feel to me like he’s being singled out - not because she is raising these incidents as I would expect her to do that, but because with all of them she has framed them as things my son is deliberately choosing to do in order to be obstructive or difficult, rather than things that are happening because he’s little and still learning. For instance I absolutely don’t mind being told he has had an accident, but to frame it as him ‘deciding’ to pee his pants and therefore needing consequences doesn’t sit right. Similarly of course he needs to learn not to scream when he’s frustrated but it’s not fair to suggest that because sometimes he can express his feelings calmly, the times when he doesn’t do so are because he’s consciously choosing to be difficult.

I think I will discuss with the nursery head. The other staff are great and discuss him with me in a way that feels reasonable, so it’s not a broad issue with the nursery itself.

YANBU OP, he sounds like a perfectly normal 3 year old to me! As you say, maybe she has higher expectations of him without realising because he seems older?

It's the language she is using that I would take issue with. "He has got to learn etc". Smile sweetly and ask for some pointers. If they make no sense and there is no effort to come up with any collaborative programme (like every hour we are going to remind him and praise success) or ask you for suggestions, you have your answer. This is not child centred. It's institution centred only.

Yanbu at all, she is being completely unfair, please do stick up for your son.

This would annoy me too! My son is two but 97th percentile for height and so people assume he's much older than he is. How ridiculous she asked what year he was born! All the behaviour you've said seems perfectly normal to me. He's three, no three year old is perfect, he's a child who is still learning about the world and how to behave appropriately - his brain also isn't fully developed either.

My son is similar, looking older than he is.

People do treat him differently - sometimes to his advantage, sometimes not.

But your educator should realize this and treat him like a three year old.

Yanbu at all, especially about the accidents. He is 3, plenty of kids aren't even potty trained at 3! The screaming thing she might have more of a point about but it's very low level behaviour that I wouldn't even necessarily have spoken to a parent about (I was a nursery nurse for a lot of years). As for him hitting a child back she is again being absolutely ridiculous about that, he defended himself and neither were hurt, I hope she spoke to the other parent too! It sounds like she genuinely thinks he's 5 and can't get her head around the fact he's 3 which just isn't acceptable.

YANBU at all, he sounds absolutely spot on for a 3 year old, and I think you are right that the staff member is forgetting he is 4, and not 4.
It might be worth arranging a chat with the room Leader or the Manager to raise your concerns.

I think you’re right to speak to the manager.

How this staff member is framing things is unhelpful.
Also at the time it wills be good to know what he had wet himself (ie absorbed in play, tried to go but had fiddly buttons and couldn’t undo in time or toilets occupied).

I was very tall for my age and I remember very clearly that sense of being considered less "sweet" by teachers and given far less leeway for being a cry baby shy or clumsy. I remember my same age cousin who was petite getting all the attention from our kindergarten teacher. There is an expectation on children to act their age and unfortunately for those who are taller or more advanced in any area (or indeed less advanced)this causes mild ostracism. It's also a peer group phenomenon but teachers seem to pick up on it very quickly, and treat children of similar ages as a homogenous peer group who should all behave in a certain way.
Any outliers get either special consideration or special dislike

Every single time she has some sort of issue, just respond with "He's 3, and you seem to be confusing him with a 4-year-old".

I would just ignore all of it

When a child looks older than their age it’s very problematic. I do think you need to take the nursery aside in a meeting, and include this woman in it, and explain your concerns. Namely that he is being held to a higher developmental bar and behavioural bar simply because of his height.

It's hard. My daughter was repeatedly hurt by bigger boys at nursery. She was nearly 4 but the size of an 18 month old and they were already a lot bigger than her plus she's summer born so a tad younger than them too. It started around the age of 3, when she was the size of a 1 yo and they were more like the size of 4-5 yos
She stopped telling the staff because she didn't want to get them in trouble. There were 2 or 3 boys that didn't know their own size and had a lot of energy. They never hurt maliciously but still my daughter had scratches on her stomach that lasted over we week and lost the skin from the top of her finger from playing with them. I doubt they realised their actions caused her to be hurt.

It does sound like it's normal development it's very much in the wheel house of things I saw at my daughters nursery but the nursery should be supporting your son in self awareness to reduce harm to others.

Where do the toilet accidents sit relative to the other behaviour? My daughter has been toilet trained for 18 months but did have the odd accident in nursery and since starting school it became more frequent in the after school club as she was afraid to walk past the big kids to get to the toilet. Lots of encouragement from staff and us and she's went several weeks without accidents before half term. I wonder whether there's something emotional going on that means at times he doesn't want to ask to use to toilet?

I also had a tall, very verbal 3 year old. When she started going to nursery (at 3), she had several accidents a day, despite being potty trained at home - I think she was just too absorbed in the new environment to notice she needed the loo (and possibly wasn't being prompted). At no point did nursery staff suggest this was a problem (and she grew out of it). The attitude you're experiencing isn't OK.

My aunt had similar problems with her son throughout his childhood as he was sooo much taller than the other kids (he's now 30 and 6'7"!). People just assumed that he was older and expected different behaviour.

That said, it was mainly people out in public that looked down on his behaviour. Teachers were fine with him. It seems like this staff member really doesn't get the point that he's younger than he looks.

I agree with a PP that using his age in months might help drive the point home, but I would have a word with someone higher up.

It's been a while since I've been around a 3 year old, but none of what you've said sounds out of the ordinary to me.

It does sound like she's expecting more of him because of his size and it's a known issue for taller children. My (quite small) almost 4yo had a series of accidents when about 3.5y. No one said anything to me other than he had an accident. We all started reminding him more to remember to go wees at daycare.

As an ex infant teacher it is NOT unusual to have children have accidents at 3, 4 and 5yrs old..... They get engrossed and don't realise until it's too late. Children's bladders are not 'mature', they are still learning. He is not 'choosing' to wet himself (unless he says I'm going to wee myself!!) and the ONLY consequence is (and should be) he needs to get cleaned/changed. I think I'd definitely bring up the use of this language with the manager.

Being over average height...my nephew had this and his DM was pulled in because he had hit someone who although the same age , was smaller. This child had pulled a toy off him and hit him when he tried to take it back, so he hit him. Obviously you don't want your child hitting anyone, but you can't expect a child to be more developmentally advanced in selfcontrol/understanding simply because he is as tall as someone 2yrs older!!

I'd ask why they feel a 36mths old child should show/ have greater self control than a 48mth old child ? And as pp have said how much supervision was going on.

Child development develops. Height does NOT speed up this development .
I told my SiL to not let their nursery hold him to higher expectations than they would any other child of the same age.

I have a son who has always been taller and better spoken than other children. No problems, eats everything, is polite, helpful and yes, unfortunately, he’s always had more expected from him than the kids who are out of control. I’ve had to make it clear several times to the school that I will not discipline him if he ends a fight. If a child his age but half his size doesn’t have the common sense not to hit / tease him I will not be punishing my child for defending himself.

Things have gotten better this year because his excellent behaviour means he gets to try and do things other kids don’t. He’s also significantly academically ahead which helps I guess.

I'd speak to the manager. The way she's phrasing it is inappropriate. All that talk of choice. The behaviour sounds age appropriate to me. And to imply there should be consequences ie punishment for wetting himself is terrible practice!!

I'm assuming you are in England here but your child should have a key worker who would be doing handovers and the majority of your child's care/supervision. Why is this woman so involved with him? If she's his key worker I'd be asking for a different one as she clearly doesn't even know his stage of development. Very poor

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