TW...to think celebrating Halloween and horror is outrageous

[Mamabear04]

TW for talking about the tragic accident that happened in Edinburgh yesterday evening.

I just don't understand why people celebrate Halloween or indulge in horror when the reality of it is just so awful. I mean there is enough horror in the world why would anyone want to celebrate violence and death? I know a lot of people will say that you can celebrate it in a happy way with nice costumes with songs, poems and sweets but at the heart of it, it does celebrate death and gore otherwise why would all the merch be skeletons and ghosts etc? That poor man in Edinburgh and his poor family and all the people who thought that the horrific incident was a Halloween prop. Why are people so disconnected from the reality of what it truly represents? I'm pretty sure hardly anyone celebrates Halloween as in the true sense of Samhaim as with other cultures with similar traditions. Everywhere I've looked for the past month just seems gore and death. Lots of people I follow on Instagram posting dress up of their kids in horror centred costumes and then in the next story it's about how awful all the death and destruction in Gaza. It just seems to bizarre to me. AIBU to just think with all the news, images, films at our finger tips that people just don't have a sense of the reality of things? That people are so numb to it?

This. Our whole village goes crazy for Halloween, and the kids (and some adults) have the most amazing costumes! Apple bobbing, Halloween games, spooky stories, trick-or-treating, dressing up, carving pumpkins, decorating the house and garden. What's not to love?! It's amazing! 😍

Lots of people I follow on Instagram posting dress up of their kids in horror centred costumes and then in the next story it's about how awful all the death and destruction in Gaza.

I think this is really about the social media and news you consume. If you come off of social media then life feels a lot more peaceful and normal.

I hadn't heard anything about this. That's absolutely awful. That poor man.
We just decorate with pumpkins and bats. But I do agree some of the things I've seen recently have been quite full on with regards to being gory or potentially upsetting to others.

Do you think maybe you struggle to tell the difference between fiction and reality (genuine question)?

Do you wonder the same about why people like to watch sad films like Titanic or read sad books like Jodi Picoult?

I suppose people are more desensitised to things now.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make, here.

Halloween comes from the Celtic festival of Samhain, which was celebrated before the Catholic Church was formed.

It's popular because it's transgressive. It's part of pretty much every human culture to "celebrate" the dark and scary side of life sometimes, it's how we process and manage fear and co-exist with things that terrify us. Look at traditional, non-Disneyfucked fairy tales. Violent and scary as fuck, because children need tangible hooks to hang their fears on. It's healthy and natural.

I like Halloween but keep the limit to pumpkins, spiders, owls, witches, black cats etc...I too hate the gory horror side of it that has become the norm. I had no idea about the tragic event in Edinburgh. Absolutely awful.

I absolutely agree.
Oíche Shamhna aka Halloween hasn’t held any attraction in my estimation for a very long time. I dislike it intensely.

The Pope who ran the Catholic church for 2000 plus years mostly resided in Rome. Rome wasn't celtic. Rome told each country to bring in All saints day etc. In Mexico they do things a little different to the celts which is understandable.

It seems a bit like the English are up themselves, with some Tudor or whatever nonsense, if they think they ruled the Catholic Church not Rome.

Halloween comes from Samhain, which is a centuries old festival. People have always dressed up, later gone mumming, all sorts. It's part of it. It's terrible what happened, but I don't think changing history is exactly going to work out too well now.

Personally, I love it. It's about welcoming the darker half of the year, paying respect to the dead, and of course having fun. It's not that bloody scary, none of the kids in my village are remotely scared and we all go all out. Lovely seeing them so excited!

Had it not have been Halloween weekend where people were in the town dressed up and events happening I don't think anyone would have picked the head up.
It was awful, unlucky timing and what's the chances you come across someone's head while out and about?
I feel really sorry for the people who picked it up, I wouldn't be able to sleep for at least 8 weeks if it were me, they must have had the shock of their lives. I doubt they saw the incident happen and then picked it up.

I think you're confused.

Although the English are descended from the ancient Britons and are Celts in the main I haven't seen anyone claiming they invented Halloween.

The Celts in Ireland however did and this predated Christianity. The Catholic Church appropriated it.

Where are the acient documents to support that the celts started the global halloween? I would genuinely be interested.

You're categorically wrong. My husband is a historian, I'm Irish, and my best friend is a folklorist. I'm not going to sit and dig out documents for you because I've seen you around, and you're just out for an argument.

Use Google.

I still have zero idea what point you're trying to make.

You said that "Initially it was a Catholic three day event that came from Rome not the celts. The celts made it their own"

This is, objectively and historically, not true. Halloweens origins are in the Celtic festival of Samhain, which was celebrated before the Catholic Church even existed.

I am certainly not claiming that the English ruled the Catholic Church, I don't even know why you think I'm making that claim. I'm also not English.

The Irish and Scottish carried on their version of Halloween to this day, where as the English dropped theirs. They included elements that were already in the culture before Christianity, the same happened globally, Mexicans added elements and nade Halloween their own too. The English didn't start Halloween though it was a Catholic thing.

I am sure someone will and bring up the documents.

Out of interest “hallow” means “holy,” so who was the previous Holy?

I think the popularity of Halloween isn’t because we’re all desensitised it’s because we by and large are shielded from the horrors that can befall someone like never before. Hence those people assuming it to be a prop because they had no reason to think it was an actual human head.

There’s a great podcast called Painfortainment by Dan Carlin that explores the history of torture essentially and he theorises that for millennia we were far more blood thirsty and accepting and capable of violence. Because society has shifted and we no longer see public executions/witch burnings etc etc we like to scare ourselves with horror movies and haunted houses. It’s fun because we don’t know what actual real life horror is.

It wasn't always called Halloween. It comes from Samhain, and it was appropriated. I'd suggest doing some research of your own because even my kids learn about this sort of thing in primary school.

That's not true either. Up where I'm from the cultures very much overlap. Political borders that have changed over the centuries mean nothing. We are the same people genetically and linguistically and share the same cultural events.

The Catholic Church didn't invent Halloween. The Celts did.

The reality of Halloween is children dressing up as dinosaurs and marvel characters and telling awful jokes about skeletons in return for a sweetie.

It's got nothing to do with a horrible accident in Edinburgh.

Is anyone saying the Celts started the -now - global version of Halloween? Obviously it has been appropriated by the US & beyond - due to Irish immigration I imagine, and it has morphed into something bigger & has homogenised somewhat, with pumpkins etc.

When I was a child in 80s Ireland Halloween was a big thing. Homemade costumes (bin bags usually), 'false faces', monkey nuts, trick or treating, apple bobbing, apple tarts with coins in them, and truly terrifying turnips. We loved it. We were aware it wasn't a thing in England because English TV would talk about Guy Fawkes night which was obviously totally unrelated.

I remember Mark Riley on radio 6 say how he thought The Simpsons - because of their fantastic Tree house of Horror episodes - had a big part to play in the present day Halloween becoming popular in England & globally.

It was definitely a thing in the 60s/70s in England. We went guising, carved turnips and dooked for apples. Guy Fawkes is Bonfire night and unrelated.

There are no written records of Samhain that predate the existence of the Church, however, it is so well evidenced by Archeological evidence that Halloween's routes in Celtic tradition is not disputed by any serious historian.

The Catholics did their familiar trick of taking one of their new holidays (All Saints Day, originally in May) and moving it to coincide with a more established holiday, in a (very succesful) attempt at appropriating existing celbrations into its own mythology.