How do you know if a child is just crap at spelling versus dyslexia?

[Bunnycat101]

It’s becoming increasingly clear that my 8 year old just can’t spell. She was an early reader and generally has been exceeding across the board for everything bar writing but I’m now getting a bit worried. Her class at school is very challenging re high sen needs and inadequate support. I think environment is probably having an impact on learning but I also think she might have some neurodiversity but is going under the radar because she’s not disruptive.

She missed a fair amount of early phonics stuff during Covid and her school don’t seem to be going big on spelling homework etc so I don’t know if she has gaps due to school or if we should look at Dyslexia or adhd testing. I asked her to spell the following words earlier and she gave me this:

group: gruop
accident: aciated
regular: reguielar
difficult: dificolt
people: people (so she can learn irregular words!)

My son couldn't spell for toffee, there was a big disconnect between his hand and brain. He could spell verbally and read very well but I have seen him spell out loud and his hand write down something very different.

He also wrote both letters and numbers back to front, couldn't tell time, didn't (still doesn't) know his left from right. In fact as an adult he had his right ear pierced to help him tell the difference!

I have attached a graphic, hopefully you can see it

I’ve got a dyslexic 8yo. He presents with

• showed absolutely no interest in letters as a tiny one- it was notable-, but loved being read to/ hearing stories
• incredible memory and oral vocabulary- way above average for his age
• amazing “lateral thinking” ability - problem solving etc way beyond his years
• never got on with phonics & has always been a couple of reading stages behind peers, and reading is very hard going
• cant recognize patterns in words- so could read the word “then” once, struggle to decode it, get there, see the word again 60 seconds later and have to go through the process all over again- just can’t retain it
• spells phonetically. Can learn spellings “by rote” but it’s just that he’s memorized the writing of the word - he wouldn’t necessarily spell it correctly “in the wild”
• not great at following routines- just doesn’t retain them

we’re quite early in our dyslexia journey but those are the obvious ones I noticed. Also all kids present differently- dyslexia is a really complex condition and the effects go way beyond reading at writing- so if you’re concerned speak to the SEN lead at your school. But be prepared for a long wait for testing or to go private.

It could be dysgraphia if she is good at reading. Push for screening at school or if you can afford it get it down privately. It's often linked to dyslexia.
I bought my daughter a Collins spellchecker at that age. You type in how you think the word is spelled and if she is good at reading she'll see it looks wrong! It gives you the correct spelling - e.g. if you type in 'enjin' it will give you engine.
Also might be worth getting her eyes tested too for things like Mears Ihrlen. Worth doing even if just to eliminate it.

I'm 55 and can't spell. I had a good job working in insurance so clearly not stupid. I once apologised for any incontinence I may cause my 500 colleagues in the office rather than inconvenience. I got pulled up in a political discussion on here for using border rather than boarder.

I think your dd does have an issue, if she reads well, is generally ok at what she writes (apart from spelling) then you need to talk to the school.

Unfortunately, despite using same words, such as despite, it doesn't sink in that it's des rather than dis. Spell check is a great tool in most cases as is predicted text...but it can be an incontinence😁

I also score dead average in iq tests, but have excellent (If I may say so)problem solving and reasoning skills, I'm very confident, have great people skills, am very numerate, especially statistics. So all is not lost...as I say modern spell checker will really did her

Does she sight read or use phonics? My son is Dyslexic but school initially told me he couldn't be dyslexic as he can read. He became a fluent reader very late - he sight reads and uses context and a big vocabulary - he never fully grasped phonics so his spelling is all over the place. He also noticeably struggles with out of context or unusual words, things like brand names. I would personally put in place some support with phonics at home. If you still have concerns when she is 10 then get an EP assessment.

If there's no 'reason' for her to be poor at spelling (eg no missed school, no poor teaching) then there is something amiss which would benefit from an assessment by a specialist assessor who can identify strengths and weaknesses and give strategies for support.

DS(9) has been assessed as more than 6 months ahead of his chronological age in his reading ability, but his spelling and writing is very, very behind.

The Senco arranged for him to have an initial assessment by an Educational Psychologist and she thinks he has Dyspraxia, and he is now on the waiting list for a formal assessment. Important to note that Dyspraxia is not just being clumsy etc, but can affect academic ability with spelling and writing so don’t automatically assume she has dyslexia as it could be any one of a number of things.

Im 60, dyslexic and can spell

For me its making the shapes of the letters thats the problem, yet I have very neat handwriting My brain doesn't get that a 5 is different from an S for example and I have to stop and think about it and often throw in a capital when hand writing

Since the advent of keyboards, its not been a problem ( just struggle with personal cards )

Dyslexia is different for so many people its like being autistic , that person might struggle with "this" but another will struggle with "that", no one knows, there is a huge scale

Ive always been a prolific reader. I can read the words, but cant speak them. If there are double N's or M;s or S;s" I dont stand a chance

If you can afford to, get your child tested and take advice from there on

Ive been struggling of late with not hearing. Lo and behold I have perfect hearing, I have hearing dyslexia.( who knew there was such a thing ) just now diagnosed at 60)

Make sure hes well tested, dyslexia, dyspraxia , ADHD, all merge into one and he can have more "problems" then first thought. Yet there are so many for who these conditions never existed when we were growing up, have made a success of our lives

We dont "have" dyspraxia, dyslexia or ADHD, , they are new labels given to us who's brains dont fit societies norm We were just the ones who went through life not really getting it, not understanding, feeling totally distanced

if a child reads slightly jumbled words just as well as properly spelled words, this is a classic sign of dyslexia.

As those who don’t have dyslexia will struggle with the jumbled words. Those with dyslexia ar used to decoding the visual jumble so won’t.

That’s not true though. People without dyslexia sight read combinations of letters even if slightly jumbled. People with dyslexia are more reliant on non-automatic decoding so jumbled words are harder.

Thank you all for replies so far. I’m not convinced that she’s hitting many of the classic dyslexia signs other than spelling but dysgraphia (which is new to me) and dyspraxia seem possible.

Reading and comprehension are excellent but it’s a chore- not something she enjoys. She was reading chapter books before she was 6 (summer baby) but interestingly only scraped through the phonics test and I think she learnt through memory rather than phonics. Her 5yo sister has a much better grasp of the vowel digraphs for example.

Memory doesn’t seem to be an issue- she’s learnt her tables with no issue for example. However, she’s often totally away with the fairies, very emotional and had very messy handwriting which is slowly improving. She’s struggled with learning to read music - would much rather learn a piece from memory. Co-ordination wise she’s not the best at sport - she does ballet but is one of the worst in her class as she can’t remember the steps (opposite to music where it’s all about memory) but she’s very high energy so she does a lot of activity as otherwise she’s climbing the walls.

For example:

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

My dc are dyslexic. I found the book word hornet and then word wasp really good for working on spelling.

https://www.wordwasp.com/

You can print test off from website to work out which book you need. Then you buy book - avaliable loads websites and work through it with dc

Take your child to be specifically tested by a professional. This will allow you to know exactly what the diagnosis and the specific challenges are. By diagnosing him by guessing you risk accidentally targeting areas that he doesn’t need help with and disengaging him from the learning process which is hard work at the best of times. With a professional diagnosis and report you will be able to advocate for him to get an individualised learning plan sorted out at the school which will also highlight his strengths.

If she can read well it's probably not dyslexia, Spelling is learned, can you help her? Get her to write down words she spells wrongly and test her on them. Have a little notebook for her to put difficult words in. It looks like she's trying to spell phonetically but that doesn't always work well with English, you have to learn a lot of words and simple rules like it will be ou not uo and i before e except after c (and other odd exceptions). If they are not teaching it much at school you need to help if it's worrying you.

My bright high achieving daughter was privately assessed and found to be severely dsylexic.
We were stunned.
Her only presentation was that SHE felt she had a difficulty.
Her teachers thought upon detailed examination of her scripts there might be a small issue but no one expected such a low dsylexic percentile.
She is bright, good at math, highly focused when she studies, has a photographic memory that was very effective in getting her through foreign languages.
But she is also absolutely dsylexic.
She is now using a laptop to type her assignments.

My 10 year old was recently diagnosed. Strong reader but spelling never seemed to improve. Assessed for year 6. My 8 year old is also dyslexic but more severely affected.

Where I live 6 months of targeted intervention which doesn't work is needed before a child can be diagnosed with dyslexia or dysgraphia, this is part of how they work out if a child has a specific learning disablity or just needs more support. Stairway to spelling book might be helpful. It sounds more like dysgraphia, but there
are other specfic learning disabilities. I did very well at school and university but still struggle with spelling, it can get less problematic as you get older and more things are done on a computer. My middle DC is struggling with really basic spelling and his writing is not very legible, though getting better. His verbal vocabulary and explanations are much much better than his written ones. Probably dysgraphia, we're trying some things at the moment before seeing if we need to pursue a diagnosis for him.

My son isn't dyslexic, but can't spell for shit. Even having alphabet cards to spell out the words didn't help. We used to do a few words a week and spelling test on the Friday (for school). By Friday all the words had oozed out of his brain.
We had him tested for dyslexia and that was negative. He has recently been diagnosed with ASD though so I'm assuming that doesn't help.

Being able to read well doesn’t mean she isn’t dyslexic.

I am dyslexic and my reading level was average for my age but I was well above average in most other areas.

My 9 year old is just coming to the end of a multi stage dyslexia assessment.

• his spelling of those words in your example would be wildly off. Aside from his own first name he cannot reliably spell any words
• in fact he would probably refuse to write at all, he absolutely hates it
• he is in a reading group at school with children who are around 2 years younger
• his older sibling and both us parents read for pleasure a lot, we have a lot of books at home, go to the library a lot and are generally a "reading house" but he has never once read of his own volition

I should add that he is really good at lateral thinking, problem solving and building things. He also has a great memory for facts and an appetite for information. Just absolutely hates anything to do with reading and writing, and the older he gets the more he seems to hate it.

I'd speak to the SENco at school to see who they recommend (if anyone) to assess your child

I'd seek a multi faceted assessment considering all different neurodivergent types and see where they assess her as fitting.

You may need to go private for this.

One of my kids is diagnosed with ADHD but we now strongly suspect dyslexia. But it could be more complex than that.

In the meantime I highly recommend this series. A little bit every day can make a big difference

toe-by-toe.co.uk/what-is-stareway-to-spelling/