National insurance - people have short memories

[MumofCandR]

I don't understand the outrage over the national insurance increase in the budget. Only 2 years ago (April 2022) Rishi Sunak increased employee NI to 13.25%, 5.25% higher than it is today - fact. Only in January this year it was 12%, today it sits at 8% - fact. This was a very clever move by the conservatives to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. On the one hand, best case scenario it would increase their vote share as they floundered in popularity (didn't work), worst case they would leave the next government with an impossible hole to fill and the NHS underfunded laying the foundations for privatisation, and setting the conditions for any subsequent government to fail - very, very devious. And people seem to have fallen for this machivelian move, memories are incredibly short. So much consternation over a 1.2% increase for employers? This doesn't even bring NI near to where it started out less than 12 months ago, if businesses are this sensitive to a minor % increase in NI then there's far more to worry about the sustainability and viability of these in the first place, surely - AIBU?

Crazy society wouldn't work if lots were left vulnerable.

Says it all if you don't want to invest in public services. What about roads, armed force and police. Don't use them either?

Flabbergasted.

Someone has to pay for Brexit.

I am surprised they didn't just unwind Rishi's pre-election lets pretend every things going great unfunded tax reduction. It is all tory gaming with our incomes.

Well those who orchestrated it are definitely not prepared to step up.

So it'll fall to those who didn't actually vote for it.

Great.

It’s a huge burden to put on business, especially business with lots of part time and low paid employees such as supermarkets, retail, hospitality, care, food distribution and production.

It’s on top of the previous burdens of Brexit, covid, Liz Truss, VAT hikes, Putin.

Some businesses will go bust and twats will rub their hands in glee because the business owners might be “Tory” or “have holidays” and nobody deserves to run a business that can’t stand a tripling of raw materials and energy costs, hiked interest rates, extra red tape, increase in wages of 40%, increased interest on borrowing, increased taxes in VAT and NI. The staff will be unemployed.

Some businesses will stay open with pay and recruitment freezes.

Prices in industries dependent on low wages like food and childcare will increase, everything gets more expensive, wages go up across the board. Inflation increases so interest rates are hiked again.

My business could stand this a lot easier if VAT wasn’t 20%. It used to be 8%. If you need an extra £2800 per employee then you need to generate £3500 to cover the cost plus the VAT (at least in hospitality where you claim close to nothing back) and you would have to do that without incurring any addition expenses such as raw materials, increased opening hours, utilities, bank charges eg you would have to do it solely in price rises. It would be doable on its own but it’s not on its own. It’s on top of an absolute avalanche of shit.

Britain can't keep borrowing more and more with no consequence for ever. At some point it will all come crashing down.

It already is but people want someone else to pay.

Wait until nurseries, old people's homes, GPs start shutting in droves.

We have an ageing population so care homes will still exist, likely to be more expensive though so people will have to get used to paying for their care.

Xenia, which public services should be gotten rid of then?

My business could stand this a lot easier if VAT wasn’t 20%

that was meant to be a temporary increase

Which is what we are seeing.

When the UK get's it's collective head out of it's arse and accepts that maybe - just maybe - there were some upsides to being in the EU, things can start looking up.

Really? It’s been temporarily 20% for nearly 14 years now - baring the temp reduction during covid.

How would your idea of paying for healthcare services work for those on minimum or low income or those elderly or with health conditions requiring multiple appointments or services?

How would fewer public services work in education, social care, emergency services, unemployment or sickness benefits? All these services need huge investment not less.

@Blondiie yes it was billed as a temporary measure but then got changed to permanent.

Genuine politics comes down to discussing where we want to be in the space between "The government should own the pubs" and "A private company should run the army and police". Bad-faith politics consists of claiming that your opponent holds one of those positions.

I know I would be happy to pay more tax if I could see my investment paying off on improving economic growth. I want to see the UK as a good place to do business, to attract foreign investment because we have a high skilled, productive workforce utilising excellent modern transport links.
But I just can't see that that happening, rather than increasing productivity I think employers will be cutting hours, cutting investment in training and upskilling. I just don't see growth happening anytime soon.

Borrowing to invest makes total sense. It's the rough equivilent of borrowing to buy a house, or a business.

Borrowing to fund day to day spending, on the other hand, does not make sense (apart, perhaps, in times of economic down turn when the public sector should shore up economic demand to boost growth).

The Budget plans means the Government will be running a current budget surplus from 2027.

The problem is that as a nation, the UK seems to expect scandinavian style public services on US-style tax receipts. And successive Governments have indulged that delusion, which is why we're in the mess we're in.

It's a good thing that there is now a Government that is no longer indulging in that delusion.

Tells you all you need to know. A communist PM and a communist Chancellor do not care about growth.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1968985/chancellor-rachel-reeves-budget-jeremy-hunt

My business could stand this a lot easier if VAT wasn’t 20%. It used to be 8%.

It hasn't been 8% for 45 years!

There is no sense in which either Reeves or Starmer could be described as "communist".

This is clearly a painful budget; but at least it is a fiscally responsible one with the Conservative! habit of borrowing to fund day-to-day spending being eliminated and instead directed to investment for sustainable growth. The previous government by contrast was cutting investment and paying for public services on the never-never.

Fgs!
They aren't communists! The woman in the portrait was way back in 1920 before then joining the Labour Party.

Comments like this are so irritating and pointless.

Communist?😅

The Daily Express. Well known for it's in-depth, unbiased political analysis! 😂

When you borrow a massive amount for a crisis - like Covid - then you need to pay it back afterwards, so that you can borrow again for the next crisis. After WWII Britain spent many decades paying back the debt incurred, that meant we could borrow when there was a banking crisis and when there was a global pandemic. Britain now needs to pay it back.

Secondly, the budget increased the level of borrowing, but the level of investment spending is being held stable. If Britain was borrowing more to pay for more investment that would be one thing. That's not what seems to be happening.

I work for a large employer. There was also a decrease in when the NI hits, down from £9k to £5k. So another hit of 15% on that yearly a cost of £600 on a lot of employees. NMW is a huge hit too.
I know recruitment will be frozen, there will be some redundancies and a decrease in pay rises if any at all next year. They will also be increasing consumer prices again.

The Tories aren't in power any more! Each government should be held to account by the electorate. Just because the Tories were/weren't worse doesn't mean the current government should get a free pass on everything. They work for us and are accountable to us. Quit tribalism and hold your government of the day to account.
Labour have a record for leaving power with increased unemployment than before they took office, the extra costs on employers will make that track record happen... again.

Oh yesh a pure commie budget.

Some major stretching used in here to manipulate today.