The NI changes are going to cost my organisation £1000 per employee

[flashbac]

The NI changes are going to cost my organisation on average £1000 per employee, The lowering of the threshold alone is going to cost around £600 extra per employee.

We are heavily regulated with fixed income. We're a not for profit. Our customers expectations are increasing. We are now most likely going to have to somehow reduce our headcount now, and payrises for April are going to be off the table.

Just shaking my head really. Our employees don't deserve this. Hard to see how this isn't a tax on jobs.

The lowering of the threshold also means employers have to pay for more workers, because part time salaries are now dragged into it.

A lot of people reading this won't care. All I can say is this NI increase will also affect you. just think about Local authorities, childcare providers and other services. Do you think it won't affect your Councils services/tax bills, to give one example?

(I'm not a Tory bot btw, before anyone starts accusing me of being one. I voted Remain, don't support the Tories at all, can't stand Boris and his cronies.)

Voted not screamed.

Why are you getting aggy with people at 9am in the morning. I didn’t say I had ‘evidence’, I said I had read an article on the exemptions, which included a statement from the department of health and social care that the details of those providing NHS services was to come, as was what services were deemed public sector.

None of my comments refer to NWM, nor have I commented how tax rises will or will not appear in price rises for customers, other than to comment on the caps for council tax.

If you’re looking for a budget in the entirety of British political history that hasn’t caused controversy then good luck to you. And if you’re looking to reply condescendingly to anyone who does not feel particularly negatively towards the budget or to Labour, then good luck with that too.

I was looking for more hours at work for more money. I feel this won't happen now and I'll be stuck with not alot of money

The bar is so low for understanding of how an economy works in this Country that people can't see why one can easily afford it and the other can't.

Yes to this. Labour have come up against the markets now and that's the difference between pre GE spin / lies and reality

Thank you, my brain is not in gear this week and trying hard to understand these additional costs.

@SnapdragonToadflax

The Tories have made people believe you shouldn't have to pay taxes

Not just the Tories. Labour too. Brown was a tax cutting Chancellor. He brought in the 10% lower income tax rate (then scrapped it). He reduced basic rate income tax. He reduced NIC. He brought in a zero rate of corporation tax for small companies (then scrapped it). He brought in tax credits which flooded the country with taxpayers' cash as it massively increased benefits (he tried to claim it was a negative tax, hence calling them tax credits!). He introduced tax free ISA accounts.

To infer that only the Tories cut tax is blatantly wrong.

NHS is a leviathan cash cow (world's biggest organisation) and dysfunctional to a great extent.

I can't understand why anyone trusts a politicians manifesto in the first place. Like the UK was struggling poorly because toys was evil and labour are pure. There are all lies.

There's no choice now its done. It will either work or it won't and there's nothing we can do about it. So I don't loose sleep. We have a time bomb of socail care costs so doing nothing isn't a option either. We'll it was.you just do nothing like before and people die with no dignity.

We could move away from a model where we all pitch in the help our most vulnerable. I'm sure we'd all op out then regret it once we get seriously ill.

I went through the budget for our work for next year - we are having to cut 2 heads we were planning to hire in the UK because of the NI raise. I know a lot of businesses a similar size to us (medium size) will do the same. I suspect the medium term impact will be less companies hiring or fewer new jobs which will have an impact on the amount of people unemployed.

The ones that will really suffer though are hospitality - they employ a lot of people and don't make a huge amount of profit in the first place.

I did the calculations for a small charity yesterday, and it comes to around that as an average for a full year.

the costs of covid furlough (and bonkers payments tot he likes of Mone) have to be recouped somehow - it was madness for tories to cut employee NI contributions.

How many people do Parish Council employ?

What was 'aggy' about their post?

Is it 'aggy' when someone posts a reasoned opinion on here?

Re cutting 4.3bn from the benefits bill, they could do this from the cost it takes to run the benefits system - I imagine it's much like the managerial issue other posters are speaking about in regards to the NHS.

I have been working for DWP for about a year now after many years working in the private sector. I have never worked somewhere so badly managed and inefficient. You simply wouldn't get away with it in the private sector where you're accountable to actual people with skin in the game - but when it's the public purse it's a free for all.

Staff retention ridiculously low due to poor training so wasted paying 2 months of wages for people to not actually do one day of the job. I've been told off for working too quickly because they want the work to last long enough to get overtime, piss poor training done over teams with highly paid "trainers" paid a FORTUNE to read off a PowerPoint screen they didn't even make because they haven't actually done the job themselves that they're training us for, ridiculous hour long meetings with up to 2500 sitting watching big wigs patting themselves on the back about a job well done, ridiculously poor work ethic culture with everyone adopting a "not my problem" and "let's kick the can down the road" attitude - hiring us all through an agency so paying the agency fees on top of the cost of wages, tax, NI, etc - and we could easily run as efficiently (which isn't very due to aforementioned poor training and bad management and terrible work ethic) on a quarter of the staff! In our site alone 120 people were brought in over the course of a week - no one was even interviewed, just checked they had 5 gcses and given the job, and we were all handed laptops, monitors, keyboards, wfh equipment, etc like they were fucking tic tacs with absolutely zero checks that we were remotely competent at the job.

We are now working with really vulnerable people with zero training and support and are thrown under the bus constantly - the decent, hard workers who actually care about the people we're working with are leaving in droves (meaning all the money invested in their training, useless as it was, is wasted - plus repeating the cycle hiring more to go through the same), leaving the work shy, dossers who don't give a shite because it's so easy to skive about and do fuck all, which enivetably is just putting vulnerable people at risk.

Don't even get me started on the amount of managers that exist just for the sake of being managers, literally creating jobs for themselves.

The first 6 months of this job was literally just fixing multiple different mistakes on a nationwide scale - just clearing the backlog, not even fixing the problem, which is just going to repeat itself over and over and then a new team will be hired to clear up the mistakes again when the backlog gets long enough. The civil service is literally just creating jobs for itself and pissing money up the wall left right and centre. All the while whinging about pay rises - in my opinion we're already overpaid for what we're doing. Never mind the hypocrisy of how things are run that you just wouldn't get away with in the private sector, including major breaches of GDPR and the mishandling and losing of people's information and a complete disregard of their duty of care to vulnerable people.

Cutting numbers and increasing efficiency, employing competent staff and prioritising staff retention of good workers, and cutting out the middle man of recruitment agencies would go a long way in reducing the benefit bill.

This is the frustrating thing. They had choices and more effective choices could have been applied. But they boxed themselves in pre election with silly sound bites that were impossible to uphold once in office.

Then needing to raise taxes to pay for their spending allocation they have chosen another immediate way of raising significant revenue, but it is one that harms growth. They desperately need growth.

As it is they still have billions of unfunded expenditure and the markets having digested the budget are now reacting.

There is also the blatant lie of Reeves and Starmer claiming that a "worker" won't pay any more tax.

There are categories of "worker" who end up paying their own employers NIC. I.e. directors of their own limited companies, agency workers, contractors under IR35, etc. These are "workers" especially workers who have to work under an agency or umbrella organisation. Their "employers NIC" is deducted from their payslip in the same way as the agency/umbrella fees, holiday and sick pay provisions, "employer" pension contributions, etc.

They've been badly hit by the Budget and no one seems to care or even understand why!

Yes, they'll have to absorb an increase in NI but that is business. You need to build in resilience, whatever type of business you are. Anything with tight margins is obviously going to find that much harder, and maybe the rules do need to be different for not-for-profits and charities, but that's what that lobbyists exist for. They won't be paying over £1000 extra in NI per employee as it's unlikely the majority of employees of a not-for-profit are on that kind of money to start off with.

Well it’s quite simple. The threshold has dropped from £9,100 to £5000. So every single employee immediately costs 15% of £4,100 more. That’s £615. Not £210. And for someone on the average UK salary of £35k, there’s also another 1.2% on £25,900. So that’s another £310. So the average employee now costs just under £1k more.

If Labour had put up income tax, the same people would be complaining. This country is in a huge mess and this government is at least being honest about the cost of rescuing public services from the absolute brink the Tories left them in. The longterm economic impact of poor health, schools, infrastructure and so on is devastating and we do have to think longterm, or future generations will be saddled with even more debt and inequality.

I do wish income tax on higher earners (including me) had been increased, but I expect that will come too.

That's a shame.

Could you cut your own wage down, at all, to help fund this?

I'm sure you're aware that your own employees have been, collectively, cutting back for years.

Were you not planning to increase salaries at all in your planning? It does seem that Employers will have room to reduce future salary increases if they are unable to cover the extra NI costs.

I'm sure if they did an income tax raise across all salary bands you'd be the first to complain.

But when they do a blanket tax raise across all industries which impacts struggling sectors which don't make huge profits from automation, then it's apparently it's fair and just business.

Here's news for you, it's also 'just business', to make you redundant and reduce your salary. And that's what will be happening to a lot of people in these sectors, which won't result in any money being raised.

It doesn't really matter about complaining or not, the rising cost of the debt is going to eat into taxpayer increases so we are paying more but for debt.

And you may well get your wish. more tax rises are likely.

Presumably you'd say the say to the GPs who are typically partners in their own practices (which ARE private businesses) when they claim they can't afford to recruit staff to treat their patients hence the ever lengthening delays and difficulty in getting appointments! After all, it's just the same, isn't it?? If you think the business owner must always take a pay cut so that they can pay their staff and provide services to their "customers".

Ignore the answer you’ve been given. It’s wrong. The additional employers NI for an employee paid £70,000 is 1.2% of the difference between the old threshold and £70k. So 1.2% of £60,900, which is £730. Plus 15% of the difference between the new and old threshold, which is 15% of £4,100. Another £615. A total of £1,345

Hopefully this screenshot works.

Even at minimum wage, the changes will cost an extra £782 in NI.

The employment allowance has been increased, but for businesses employing lots of people that's a drop in the ocean compared to the costs.