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To think this budget will finish us off

1000 replies

BurnoutGP · 30/10/2024 22:12

I am a GP Partner of over 20 years. I am now senior partner for the last few years. We have seen year on year below inflation funding increase. With an explosion in demand and massive shift of work from secondary care. We have issues wirh recruitment.
Our partner income is shrinking year on year. We are now always overdrawn and this gets worse every month.
We just cannot soak up the MLW and NI without adequate resource uplift.
I think we will be done. I'm so very tired of the constant battle and the demand and anger while working "part time" 60hr weeks.
We will have to hand back our contract. And we wont be the only one. That will leave one surviving practice in my area.
I'm done.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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YourAzureEagle · 30/10/2024 23:22

Rummly · 30/10/2024 23:20

Have GPs ever been “nationalised”?

Nope, Bevan wanted to, but the BMA kicked off about the nationalisation plans, so he backed down - so they have no economies of scale that you find in the NHS itself (well in theory you should!!)

Unbelooth · 30/10/2024 23:22

MorganFreemansVoice · 30/10/2024 23:20

That's absolute nonsense. This is what businesses do: as soon as their profit is taxed a little bit more, they all say they go bankrupt, realy?🤣 What a big, fat lie. Are you telling me that you are overdrawn $10k every month? Haha. Who in their right mind would run a business with such a hole in their turnover?

And now you are beginning to get it. We will walk away, in order not to go bankrupt. And other businesses - who are, let's not forget, employers - will too.

And people won't be able to afford care homes. Or nurseries.

This policy does not come without consequences.

5475878237NC · 30/10/2024 23:22

Rummly · 30/10/2024 22:59

Sure, but I supposed there’d be some sort of public sector carve out. Which a pp has said there is, in fact, though apparently not across the board.

Same. I thought in this budget there were going to be a definition of small business and exemptions so that really only the big multinationals took the hit being described in this thread.

I also agree it's time to bring all of primary care back into a reformed national health.

rainfallpurevividcat · 30/10/2024 23:22

Universities should stop paying their vice chancellors double the PM's salary before they come crying about going bust.

Chonk · 30/10/2024 23:22

Unbelooth · 30/10/2024 23:18

Should I just drop them in it in three month's time?

I have no idea what point you're even trying to make. Why would you reduce their hours now or even in 3 months time when the change doesn't actually happen until April?

Flopsythebunny · 30/10/2024 23:23

icelolly12 · 30/10/2024 22:22

I really don't know why the minimum wage has increased yet again. It increased significantly not too long ago. Many skilled jobs aren't much better paid after student loan repayments, plus many skilled jobs are salaried whereas many unskilled can take on extra hours and end up better off.

Because minimum wage is not enough to survive on without benefit top ups

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 30/10/2024 23:23

Rummly · 30/10/2024 23:20

Have GPs ever been “nationalised”?

They were less commercialised last century. In early 2000s, healthcare companies began to be able to bid on contracts. Prior to that each GP was an independent contractor (self employed).:

NoisyDenimShaker · 30/10/2024 23:23

I don't understand why Britain has so little money. Anyone know?

BurnoutGP · 30/10/2024 23:23

MorganFreemansVoice · 30/10/2024 23:20

That's absolute nonsense. This is what businesses do: as soon as their profit is taxed a little bit more, they all say they go bankrupt, realy?🤣 What a big, fat lie. Are you telling me that you are overdrawn $10k every month? Haha. Who in their right mind would run a business with such a hole in their turnover?

We are 10k overdrawn at the end of every month yes. Sometimes it's less if we have additional income like eg flu etc. We have had to pay off 2 retired partners in the last few years so it will eventually settle but not with no uplifts to match more outgoings..

OP posts:
ExtraOnions · 30/10/2024 23:24

GPs are Independent contractors to the NHS, they never wanted to be NHS employees … they didn’t want the NHS in the first place.

5475878237NC · 30/10/2024 23:24

Thanks for all you do OP. And for saving the life of the three month old baby. This gave me chills tonight.

SurelySmartie · 30/10/2024 23:25

BurnoutGP · 30/10/2024 22:20

When you're 10k overdrawn every month then more outgoings and increases every month will be just more than we can run a business with.

This is why all doctors should be salaried employees of the NHS and not private businesses. It’s so very wrong.

rainfallpurevividcat · 30/10/2024 23:25

Flopsythebunny · 30/10/2024 23:23

Because minimum wage is not enough to survive on without benefit top ups

Quite. It's RIDICULOUS for working people to have to be subsidised with benefits and having to go to food banks. Work must pay.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 30/10/2024 23:25

NoisyDenimShaker · 30/10/2024 23:23

I don't understand why Britain has so little money. Anyone know?

Brexit. Covid fraud. Succession of MPs & PMs out to boost their personal portfolios at the expense of the country.

YourAzureEagle · 30/10/2024 23:25

BurnoutGP · 30/10/2024 23:23

We are 10k overdrawn at the end of every month yes. Sometimes it's less if we have additional income like eg flu etc. We have had to pay off 2 retired partners in the last few years so it will eventually settle but not with no uplifts to match more outgoings..

Therefore nationalisations solves the problem, you no longer have to be worried about the business side of things or the dubious morality of pushing drugs for reward per stab.

Unbelooth · 30/10/2024 23:25

Chonk · 30/10/2024 23:22

I have no idea what point you're even trying to make. Why would you reduce their hours now or even in 3 months time when the change doesn't actually happen until April?

OFFS. Somebody said "At least give it three months!" as though this budget would somehow bed in and be different.

There are numbers we are looking at, numbers we are being charged, that will kick in in April. And our small business, that employs local people, cannot afford them.

rainfallpurevividcat · 30/10/2024 23:26

SurelySmartie · 30/10/2024 23:25

This is why all doctors should be salaried employees of the NHS and not private businesses. It’s so very wrong.

Indeed.

FinishTheBook · 30/10/2024 23:26

Then if they can't cope, and I'm not surprised they can't, they are doctors, not business administrators, its time for the NHS to absorb all the GP practices, apply economies of scale and standardise the service.

Then the doctors can get back to what we want them to do, and I'm sure they want to do, practice medicine.

Maybe, I don't know the answer. I'm not sure the government fully understands the issues and pressures faced.

To be honest, my main concern at the moment is for my friends wellbeing. I think she will walk away, as will many like her, taking their needed years of experience with them and I think that is frightening. We need experienced GPs.

It's not just Labours budget that has done it, it's obviously the Tories before them as well. I think my friend was hopeful that Labour would improve things though, after so many shit years, but with today's news, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Julen7 · 30/10/2024 23:26

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/10/2024 23:12

Let me try to find my tiny violin. Not.
As I said on a previous, bleating thread: if you can’t afford to pay your staff a decent, living wage then your business is not viable.
Two friends are GP partners. They’re far from poor.

The state should not be topping up the wages of full-time employees.

Does this mean (curious to know) that the state won’t be topping up so many “minimum wage” wages now there is going to be an increase?

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 30/10/2024 23:27

ExtraOnions · 30/10/2024 23:24

GPs are Independent contractors to the NHS, they never wanted to be NHS employees … they didn’t want the NHS in the first place.

Except for the GPs that work for healthcare companies like Operose
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61759643

The GPs that didn’t want to be employees of the NHS and the BMA leaders that made that call have been dead the past thirty years. The current generations may feel differently.

Jacqui Wakefield working undercover in a GP surgery in London

UK’s biggest GP chain replacing doctors with less qualified staff

BBC Panorama went undercover at a surgery run by the UK's biggest provider of GP services to the NHS.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61759643

OrwellianTimes · 30/10/2024 23:29

BurnoutGP · 30/10/2024 22:18

Some of our lower paid staff/new staff/inexperienced staff are yes. We employ 30 odd non doctors from cleaners to inexperienced admin staff etc. Not all GP staff are doctors you get that right??

Having worked in a GP practice and in depth knowledge of the business side of it, the only employees on NMW was the filing clerk.

nam3c4ang3 · 30/10/2024 23:29

This is unfortunately just the beginning - but, nothing more we can do now. Those who thought this government would make things better were sold a lie - we will all have to pay for it. so sorry op - you have my sympathy.

BurnoutGP · 30/10/2024 23:31

MorganFreemansVoice · 30/10/2024 23:20

That's absolute nonsense. This is what businesses do: as soon as their profit is taxed a little bit more, they all say they go bankrupt, realy?🤣 What a big, fat lie. Are you telling me that you are overdrawn $10k every month? Haha. Who in their right mind would run a business with such a hole in their turnover?

Yes really not sure why you think I would make it up

To think this budget will finish us off
OP posts:
PrincessofWells · 30/10/2024 23:31

What's your salary Op?

YourAzureEagle · 30/10/2024 23:31

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 30/10/2024 23:27

Except for the GPs that work for healthcare companies like Operose
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61759643

The GPs that didn’t want to be employees of the NHS and the BMA leaders that made that call have been dead the past thirty years. The current generations may feel differently.

Edited

Maybe time to revisit the idea and ballot the BMA membership then.

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