To ask SIL why she isn't dealing with DN next time?

[NotLactoseFree]

DNephew is 8. We suspect he's ND although assessment process and referral only just starting. He has also had a tough time at home with an emotionally abusive and controlling, borderline-violent father who is now largely absent from his life. I mention thi sbecause I do acknowlege that he's had a bit of a tough start in life.

However, his behaviour can often be appalling. This has been true since he was a toddler. From our perspective (me and DH), his parents are/were ineffective with no consequences but lots of shouting. Totally pointless. The result is very normal for other adults to step in and discipline him. We (me, DH, other extended family) have all agreed to do this as little as possible and have really stepped back because we don't think appropriate, even though SIL actually likes it.

There was an incident at the weekend where a third party adult gave him a very serious ticking off as DN was speaking very very rudely (swearing and shouting and using very derogatory language) and SIL did nothing. I wasn't there so I don't know the details, but there's been some tension as a result.

Speaking to SIL is pointless - DH and MIL have tried fairly robustly. I've tried gently. So most of us just avoid doing things where he will be forced to be around us as he can't/won't behave and his mother refuses to deal with it.

But he's getting older. Expectations are higher. And I'm worried. He's on the verge of being kicked out of his sports team for poor behaviour and it appears he no longer has any friends at school. I suspect there are more consequences that I'm unaware of.

Would it be insanely rude to say to SIL, next time this sort of thing happens, "Are you going to just let him speak like that to you/me/DH/random person on the street?" It feels so passive aggressive but something has to change!

Oh, and before anyone asks, for the last year DH and I have really tried to engage with him positively, speak to him about good things going on, include him in events and outings etc. But mostly he refuses to participate and stays home on his xbox and SIL doesn't seem able or willing to push it.

Children who are ND often need more support and opportunities to regulate themselves. It might be that he struggles to regulate himself because of his ND traits.... Or maybe the trauma from his childhood has resulted in trauma related behaviors. It sounds like it isn't as straightforward as your SIL needing to tighten her boundaries, so I put YABU... I'd try and understand more about him/her rather than judge.
If you're struggling with his behaviour then put in your own boundaries and see less of him. It sounds really difficult, but I don't think judgement will help.

Your DH and MIL have spoken “robustly” with her, what makes you think you passively- aggressively making a comment will make a difference?

It sounds like it’s time for external forces to force their hand now. He obviously needs to be kicked off his sports team and for things to happen at school before SIL will take any notice.

No point at all having a word, you say everyone’s already tried to no avail. You’ve tried engaging with him more and that’s had no impact either. It’s fine to step back and see less of them. Even if he gets a diagnosis he can’t go round swearing at strangers and expect no consequences.

you are dripping in judgement whilst sitting on your high horse. Leave them alone. You are not helping and clearly don't want to help. Sounds like your only aim is self promotion as the better parent. I am sure Sil can go without that crap.

My ds is ND and struggles with emotional dysregulation. I am a single parent. For a number of reasons I struggle with setting firm and consistent boundaries around some of his behaviours. However I would never/have never allowed ds to behave as you describe, without consequences.

I don't think your proposed plan of action will be constructive. You already know the answer: Yes, she is just going to let him! She will likely see your question as an attack on her parenting and her child, and will get defensive. Then nothing will change for either of them.

You might try approaching the issue from the angle of how much her ds is suffering as a result of her refusal to draw boundaries for him. How much he is missing out on.

He has been excluded and rejected. He is likely friendless. He is very isolated and has no interests outside the home. This is not a healthy way for any child to grow up. ND children get their feelings hurt and their self esteem stomped on as easily as NT children, perhaps more easily.

Appeal to her hopefully innate maternal wish to see her child thrive rather than merely survive. She will have to be willing to push beyond her own comfort zone to achieve this, though. She likely has her own issues and trauma from surviving an abusive relationship.

Research local resources where she might access help, support and understanding for herself and DN and direct her to the info.

Parenting an ND child alone is hard and the feelings that arise are complex. She probably needs to feel that you and your family are supportive of them both, rather than critical, in order to really flourish.

I admit, I do judge her sometimes. I don't want to, and as the person who realised how toxic and abusive her relationship was long before anyone else and who has genuinely been the one who was there supporting her through her relationship exit, I hate that I do find myself judging her sometimes.

I'm fully aware that ND children struggle with regulation and also that they often receive much more negative feedback. I have an ND child myself (it was so many of the behaviours we had seen in DS that made DH and I first wonder if DN was ND in the first place).

But you're all right, passive aggressive statements are NOT going to help. I need to continue to put boundaries in place. @LauderSyme I have tried in the past to signpost her to resources, I've encouraged her to engage more with school (which actually, I believe she is finally doing).

@AnneLovesGilbert That's exactly it. Basically more of what we have been doing. But it breaks my heart. She's been tbrough a lot, and so has he, and the consequences are just getting worse but I can't solve for that. if I thought being kicked off his team would help him, I'd agree with @WhereIsMyLight but it won't. it will make things worse and his self esteem will further drop.

Okay, this was what I needed. A reminder that a) it IS hard for her and him b) that I just have to keep my nose out of it and c) where and when I can, be supportive.

Nothing like an MN pep talk!

It sounds exhausting for your SIL and it may be that she discusses the poor behaviour with your DN when she’s on her own with him. When he’s calmed down. It sounds such a struggle for them that I’d personally try and just support, listen etc. I don’t think highlighting his and her flaws will help your SIL or DN

@NotLactoseFree Your sister and her son BOTH need help. It sounds like she has abandoned her parental duties (maybe due to exhaustion/MH?) and her son is struggling in absence of boundaries. He desperately needs them and it will only get worse...

What you can do: Reach out to Sil and be very compassionate. She must have suffered as well from her abusive exhusband. Tell her you understand that it's really hard for her and that you think she needs help for herself and for her son. She needs to see her GP who can guide her further, not only for her son but also for her : single/family therapy. There is also an organisation for single parents called Gingerbread. https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/

What you can do is to find out as much as you can about local ressources available and guide her to them. Be calm, compassionate and nonjudgmental. She doesn't sound like a great mum at the moment but maybe she can be given the right help. We're not in her place and we don't know what she struggles with so we should give her the benefit of a doubt that inside if her she wants to be a great parent but without help she's not able to at the moment.

You can be a lifesaver for her and her son but don't take on too much. Guide her but don't substitute yourself as a mental health support worker. I'm wishing the very best to all of you.

Just keep being there for her. It's heartbreaking when you have a child like this (mine is 21 now) and people in the family turn against them. It's understandable, but it just makes everything so much worse.

Often it's just the personality of the child....I have another child who's very polite and would be mortified if he offended anyone. They're both ND. Sometimes it just seems impossible so you give up for a while...then you put loads of energy into trying to improve things, which ultimately doesn't work and you give up again. Then you burn out and become ill and their behaviour becomes even worse.

You can be a lifesaver for her and her son but don't take on too much. Guide her but don't substitute yourself as a mental health support worker. I'm wishing the very best to all of you.

Your post is kind. Unfortunately, I already had to distance myself to protect my own mental health during the break up with her ex. I had been there for her but eventually it just got too much, made worse as he trails chaos and she's still not able to separate herself from that when he does pop up.

I will look at some of those resources. Unfortunately, she's very resistant. I don't want to go on an don but there are some issues in her and DH's family. They also sem to take a very passive approach with an attitude of a child should just know better, even when they're young. DH and I have had to discuss this a few times with our children. They don't seem to understand the importance of guiding and teaching children. Years ago, while I was still dating DH, he was (not for the first time) behaving like a crazy person and screaming and shouting at me about somethign that wasn't in any way my fault. MIL fully acknowleddged he was 100% in the wrong but she told me that it's eeasier and better just to agree with him to avoid the meltdown. DH had a lot of therapy between then and when we got married, in large part to learn how to self regulate and how to behave like a grown up, as he hadn't learnt those lessons from his parents. SO I'm not sure why I'm surprised that SIL is finding it hard too.

I have considered approaching the school because I know she is FINALLY engaging with them and actually talking to them about some of the challenges so she MIGHT listen to them but I suspect in the meantime she's downplaying a lot of what's happening. But I don't even know how to have that conversation. "Hi school. You don't know me but I think you should intervene in my nephew's relationship with his mother."

Your sister-in-law won't act until there are sufficient consequences to her and your nephew. She being excluded from family events is probably the only way her attention can be gained.

Yes gone on say that op and then wonder why world war three breaks out and your all estranged?
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