I think the emergency plumber ripped me off

[Isteppedintothemire]

As factually as I can manage.

	I'm sorry it's so insanely long crib notes

I understood plumber (poor english) gave me quote for emergency job at £140 an hr. Had to pay plumber separately for parts. I had identified the leak before calling them out and very clearly explained it over the phone and then to the plumber in person. Plumber spent more that an hr doing the wrong job, thought he'd fixed it, he hadn't. Did fix it in just under 2 hrs total. Company then asked for approx double quote from plumber £700ish. Plumber wouldn't leave till paid, threatened to remove parts, asked me to get family remember to transfer me money. I eventually got them to agree a part payment £340, and agreed to pay the rest on monday under duress. AIBU to not pay the rest and try and fight this?

In full
Had a leak on Saturday at approx 10am, I took up the floor boards and cupboard to find it and see which pipe it was.
I identified it was a pinhole leak on the supply line between the internal and external stopcocks on the section of pipe that passed under the wall. I couldn't get eyes on the leak but I could get my finger over. I needed that section of pipe replaced and joins added.
I called a few emergency plumbers having to search google and make judgements on who to call from reviews available. Found a company that said it could get someone out within as hr their phone line was very quiet and I had to ask for things to be repeated. Their callout charge was £70 and the plumber would quote when he was there. Their reviews were favourable.

Plumber arrives approx 1 hr after call. English isn't his first language but he seems to understand it well enough (this is relevant)
I go through with him where the leak is. Plumber says 'yes yes you called I'm the plumber I know' - which I took to mean he had also been informed exactly what the job was by his colleague and he understood. Plumber turns the main outside stopcock off- which I had accessed but couldn't turn.

I should say as this was a mains pressure leak there was water over a few feet of pipe upto nearly the internal stopcock. This had been spraying out of the pinhole in the pipe for a number of hours.

Plumber says he's needs better access to the pipe at the back of the cupboard as the access panel is only small I agree and say he can cut through that section to get access, I ask if he had a wood saw he answers that he may need to also take the other side off as it is small. I agree if needed. He moves back and forth between his van for a few minutes then rips the wood panel off with his hands- making more mess than neccessary and creating something harder to make good at the end.

Plumber spends approx 15mins on the pipe and and the fittings - I think this is him assessing what he needs for the job and how long it will take. Although when he moves back I see he has already removed the main pipe from the internal stopcock, so there is now no way the water can be turned back on- I believed this may have been needed to assess the job.
I'm going to add the conversation at this point as best as I can remember. During this conversation the plumber was sorting through a large bag of parts

Plumber :I need say you pay me direct for parts 50. You pay labour to company call out charge and labour 70.

Me: I don't pay parts to the company I called? Is the labour 70 an hour or half hour then and the call out ontop or included and I pay that to the company?

Him : No no you pay the company labour 50 parts to me

Me:Yes I can pay you £50 for parts but how much is the labour? Is it 70 for the call out and does that include the first 30 minutes? Do you mean 70 then for every half hr after?

Plumber: yes 50 to me labour callout you pay company 70 for my labour

Me: ok how long will it take?

Plumber: maybe 1 hr

Me: Ok

Plumber is still going through his bag of parts and then starts doing something on the pipe. Around another 5 minutes pass. Then the plumber states he doesn't have the right part, all different sizes, not the right size he needs to go to the shop. Plumber has his phone out and is showing me a route on google maps and he is saying its 12 minutes.
I ask if there was any other way to do the repair. Maybe if he also replaced the stopcock so the joint he needed to replace was on standard copper pipe as it seemed to be the join just before the stopcock he was saying he didn't have, or if he could reuse the Coupling (I've since checked they are reusable) as there were 2 there already and replace the whole section of the water pipe to the old stopcock (aound 2-3 feet). He said he couldn't do it without the part. He needed the money transferring and these parts maybe expensive, more than £50. I agreed to transfer £50 but said I wanted a receipt and if it was more that £50 I could transfer the difference. I got on with the transfer. He spent another few minutes going back through his part bag. Then said offhand as he was leaving no receipt I leave tools here. Off he went.

Plumber returns around 40 minutes later, gets on with job spends about 15 minutes then said he'd turn the water back on, I question it as I can still see the same pipe that I know is damaged and there is no joint visible. He shouts at me asking IF YOU PLUMBER? NO I'M PLUMBER. YOU WATCH.
Plumber turns water back on, comes back in and appears genuinely shocked to see water now shooting out of the pinhole in the pipe, which is now in the back of the kitchen cupboard as he have must pulled around a foot of slack through. Plumber runs back outside and turns water back off. Plumber comes back in and tries to make out I'm stressed and he fix it now calm down.

I'm already fairly deep in by this point so I let him continue, annoyed he's spent over an hour fixing god knows what that wasn't broken and hasn't done the job I booked and was very clear about. He spends 15-20 minutes and replaces that section of pipe. It's pushed back down so I can't see entirely but looks like he's reused the couplers that were there originally. finished and packed up just within 2 hours. I've realised by now that his english really isnt that good he has also shouted at me.

Then comes the paying. I ask if an invoice will be send then I call or pay online? He says one minute. He calls the company on his phone and then hands it to me. Agent goes through the whole spiel ' it's it great we could get to you, and fix the job, all done today blah blah blah'./ Then starts asking for card info, I have to ask how much it will be because he hasn't told me. £700 with vat! I ask for an invoice and say that isn't what I was told. I've got the plumber stood right in front of me and he'd already shouted at me once I really didn't feel safe saying anything other than I'd misunderstood the pricing and didn't have that much.

Refused to pay the whole amount but offered part (250) saying I didn't have it in my account. This was a lie I did have it but wasn't willing to pay in full as vastly over the quote from plumber. I'm told it must be paid today in full or the parts would have to be removed the plumber can't leave until it's paid. This goes back and forth for a bit. I again ask for an invoice and say I can transfer from a savings account on monday but don't have access on my phone. I eventually hang up and hand the phone back to the plumber. Now I'm really trying to get this plumber out but also without fully paying the bill that was double what I'd been told, even discounting the plumber wasting half the time. The plumber is complaining to me that he wants to leave but can't.

I call the original number on my phone and ask to speak to them about paying because this all just seemed so dodgy, and I guess I wanted a record on my phone. They won't speak to me say someone else needs to call me back. 10 more minutes and I call back again. They apologise and say the finance guy will call now. Finance guy calls the plumber phone again, I say it needs to be on mine. Eventually he does call me. At this point the plumber has been following me around the house for around 30 minutes after finishing the job and packing up, never more than a metre or two away, not actively threatening but making sure I know he's there.

The plumber had been asking me if my mum could transfer me some money earlier to pay the bill so I eventually made a higher offer (340) that was accepted with the agreement that I would pay the rest monday. I agreed to this further payment under duress because I really didn't feel safe. They had also threatened to remove the parts which would have left me in an even worse state that originally.

The kicker- Finance guy takes my card details over the phone, card payment is declined and I get a message from my bank saying it's been blocked due to suspected fraud. Further nonsense back and forth with finance guy. I have to make sure the payment hasn't already gone from my bank so try to log into internet banking. Plumber as you can all guess still won't leave, still hovering very close. I'm showing him the fraud notices on my phone, also I've been blocked from accessing internet banking and I show him that message to. He's on the phone to the finance guy again at this point and telling him he can see the notices I'm blocked. I'm being told to call the bank etc, still won't leave plumber still stating he'll have to remove work.

I do manage to get into internet banking and do transfer money (340)- it's just to an individuals account not a business account. Plumber pictures the transfer confirmation and leaves!!! yes

So I'm left with the company wanting the rest of the payment and I don't think I shouldn't pay, they have now sent me an invoice which it for a different amount that they said on the phone I think because it doesn't have vat.

I realise I've messed up at multiple points here, I should have got an hourly rate over the phone to begin with but I really was struggling to hear (suspect now thats deliberate) and I did need a plumber. I should have realised the plumbers english really wasn't very good and the discussion about costs could definitely have been clearer. But I thought £140 an hour for a call out during daytime at the weekend sounded about right. So if you've made it this far aibu. Should I pay the remainder of the bill? Should I fight this. What do I do?

My husband is a self-employed plumber and you've definitely been ripped off, firstly with the price and secondly that they are a genuine company. It sounds like they are someone who will advertise as having plumbers and then send any dodgy sub-contractor out when they get a job.

I know everyone prices differently but my husband doesn't charge call-out fees and is only £75 an hour, even at weekends and for emergencies (although he doesn't do middle of the night emergencies because we have a young daughter). He always agrees a price beforehand with a written quote, or if he's unsure of how long something will take, e.g. a leak, he gives a half hourly rate with a cap before he goes any further.

I personally would try and fight it, you could try Trading Standards as the first step and see if any other complaints have been made against the company.

Yeah I think it's maybe an outfit that covers the weekend work of a real company. Non of the contact I've had has that companies info on it. I don't even really know who to complain to or about. Do I contact the company who's details are on google? Note there contact number is now different to the one I called. Can results on google be spoofed or will they just have a different no. on there at different times.

I massively feel ripped off, I thought £140 an hr was high but I needed the work done and he was there then.

I guess my question is what do I do now. They've already showed themselves to be underhand and made it clear they want the rest of the payment by end of today.
Will they even chase it up if they are not a proper company or are they just after whatever they can get in the moment?

…next time, put a bowl under it until you can find a “non emergency” (none rip off) plumber. Worst case, stick some Gorilla Tape on it for 48 hours.

Trading Standards are probably your best bet, if they start threatening, then it’s a police job. You did agree to the £140 an hour, so not sure what recourse you have.

Next time go on my builder.com

Horrendous. Refuse to pay the rest and leave terrible reviews everywhere. Tell them you're reporting him to trading standards. I think you can only do this via environmental health with some councils, but he's a complete arse. Then block him, obviously. He knows he's ripped you off already. He's not going to come for any more money.

Sadly I could only just get a finger on it or I would have used self amalgamating tape as a temporary fix

I'm not trying to get money back I knew whatever I transferred was gone. And while 140 did seem a high rate it was an emergency call on a weekend (normal hours) so I accepted it yes. What I didn't accept was double that rate and for the plumbers english to be so bad he didn't understand what the job was and wasted more that an hour. But I get the nearly £400 is gone

It's the bill that they still want me to pay that I'm worried about

Yeah this is what I'm hoping. But you can tell from my the whole saga I'm clearly an eternal optimist maybe wishful thinking

@Isteppedintothemire honestly just block him. If he tries to come to the door then ring the police and say a guy who defrauded you is now threatening and harassing you. But it won't come to that I'm sure.

Finance guy takes my card details over the phone, card payment is declined and I get a message from my bank saying it's been blocked due to suspected fraud

Sums it all up really doesn't it? Except that in future they'll probably "trade" using a different account and the whole thing will start up again

Obviously you don't pay any more, but I'd be prepared for calls and even visits so make sure your security's fit for purpose
And yes you could leave reviews all over, but if you couldn't trace this name you probably won't be able to trace the next one they'll use either

Yes exactly it was a shit show. But also I was on my own and there was a guy in my house that wouldn't leave who had already shouted at me when he was in the wrong.

Do I write a complaint to the email that I got to send me account details saying that I'm not paying more or do I just ignore? I did insist they emailed account details to me as the plumber was just showing me the details on his phone and I wanted something from 'the company'

I feel like I used up all my courage during the visit, refusing to pay in full. Now I'm just shakey and anxious and a bit stuck

There is the added complication that I have lodgers and spend a lot of my time at my partners and away for work. So if they do visit it might not even be me answering. I can explain to lodgers when I see them next but can't guarantee how they'll react if plumber turns up at the door. And I really don't want them left feeling unsafe too.

On a Saturday we'd have charged you £120 for the call out and first hour and £60 per hour thereafter. (We pay our plumbers pretty well in order to keep the good ones) But if one of our plumbers had spent an hour working on the wrong sectio0n of pipe when you had clearly shown him the right section we'd have knocked that time off.

This whole set up sounds very dodgy.

I'd phone the police now and report it as fraud. Also contact trading standards.

I refused to pay an emergency electrician on Christmas Eve £500 for 20 minutes. (New tenant’s washing machine tripped the electrics). I told the management company I was sending my own electrician round-he’d done a lot of remedial work to get the property up to code as per new laws. He said there was nothing wrong and told me the emergency guy had done nothing bar fuck up a plug. After several calls to the management company, requests for a detailed invoice etc-I just had one saying £250x2, no details of work carried out-he stopped asking for payment. Stick to your guns, OP, mention that he ripped off the panel which will cost £x to fix, his first hour he didn’t fix the issue, obviously, so you won’t be paying that.

Stick to your guns and don’t pay but next time turn the water off at the stop tap and then use something to seal up the hole. If the pipe is empty of water LSX will sort small leaks for a while.

I am fairly handy I do most of my water plumbing myself. I'd dug the outside stopcock out of all the mud but I physically couldn't turn it. I'm recovering from an illness and not on top form. I also couldn't see the leak just get a finger tip on it.

Trust me I'll be taking myself back to screw fix and spending whatever I need on tools and doing it myself if it happens again. I taught myself to plaster because I didn't want to have to deal with more tradies. This is just another experience that tells me to soldier on DIYing things most baulk at.

But I'm in this position now. Thanks for all your messages

It was fully dodgy, I thought it when the plumber asked to be paid directly for parts and then refused to bring a receipt of any kind. I think now that he drove round the corner and had a break. But the trusting part of me at the time thought he was a recent immigrant and maybe this was a way to manage expenses otherwise he's out of pocket till payday. Christ I've become soft and stupid in my convalescence.
They did send me an invoice after the part payment and I'm pretty sure it's faked.

Do I write a complaint to the email that I got to send me account details saying that I'm not paying more or do I just ignore?

To be honest I wouldn't bother, @Isteppedintothemire; you did what you could at the time but there's no point expecting rational behaviour from people like this, and with a possible fraud enquiry hanging over them they may just be glad to have got the £350 (which sounds a darned sightt more tthan they were worth)

As mentioned I wouldn't discount the possibility of them trying for more, but just tell your housemates to say they know nothing about it and to contact you ... most likely they'll target someone else instead

I think they've had a really good amount for the job already. I they did stop the leak so I think they should be paid. But it's enough

to update. They've given me some missed calls today and email chasing full payment. I have responded stating I am disputing the invoice and why. Also that I'm considering contacting trading standards and the police because I am.

I actually tried to call trading standards this afternoon but they said their call wait times were long and might not get to me before the line shut. So I'll have to try them in the morning. Depending on if I hear back I guess.

Thanks for all the support and advice so far.

I had something similar happen but with roofers and a lot more money was involved. I had three of them in my house telling me that if I didn't pay VAT they would take all the tiles off the roof. It was actually very scary.

I contacted my bank and because they hadn't done any of the work they said they were going to it was classed as fraud. They stopped the card they used and retrieved half
of the money. They also closed the account used and put the details of the account owner on a list so they won't be able to open another account or get any form of credit.

I also reported to trading standards and to the police. They were messaging me once the account had been closed and were accusing me of fraud. They never came to us or made any more contact once I blocked them. It was a bad financial hit but an important lesson to learn. The police said that fraud hadn't been committed because I couldn't prove they hadn't done anything and because they hadn't hurt me or carried out any threats no crime had been committed.

Contact your bank and state what has happened and ignore any contact from them past a simple text or email stating that you have contacted trading standards the police and the police fraud team. They will probably run off with what they have already managed to get from you.

You can email trading standards.

You must have been terrified! At least it was only one of them with me. And I know he did eventually do the work. No crime being commited sounds like yet another police cop out. It's intimidating they damn well know it, they don't need to say they're going to do anything. Its already there.

I've already spoken to my bank as they stopped the card payment as fraudulent and blocked my card. So new card for me and I don't think there's much they can do with inbound bank payment info.

I didn't see that I need to sort dinner now but will have a look for that. I'm still a bit unsure what I would even tell them, I don't know company names I have a name for the plumber and it's definitely him. After googling there are pictures and convictions 🙁