Is this abuse?

[PoleCurtain]

I would be really grateful for some outside perspective to help my get clear and stay sane. My DH just told me I was abusing him. This is what happened.

I was trying to organise something fun for us and DC. I went to check he was up for it. He started questioning if it was possible. In an irritated voice I said something like ‘yes, of course it’s possible’ - the irritation was because it’s obvious to me, why would I suggest it if it wasn’t and he questions EVERYTHING I say. Never just trusts me despite not having any evidence of flakiness. I’m a pretty competent adult most of the time.

So he got cross and told me not to speak to him like that (but in a more cross and loud voice than me). At that point I didn’t back down I was activated by him getting cross and I told him I find it annoying that he questions everything I say - in an irritated tone. He got more angry and had another go at me for being irritated.

I then caught hold of myself and realised that I had been irritated and took a deep breath and started to say ‘yes, you are right, I’ve got lots of big emotions about a lot of things at the moment’ and was then going to say ‘and that came out in how I spoke, I’m sorry’

I didn’t get a chance to finish as he then shouted over me and I got a tirade of how awful I am and that he won’t be abused like this. I disagree with this characterisation of me and my behaviour. I manage my emotions pretty well three weeks in four - in the face of some high expressed emotion. Before my period I find it harder.

Was that abusive? I spoke in an irritated and cross way. I didn’t say anything mean or personal or generalise. I tried to say sorry.

He was far more vocal than I was, was louder and shut me down. Even when I asked calmly to be able to finish what I was saying and that I was going to apologise.

I see it as normal level irritation in a long marriage. But how normal is it to feel and show irritation with your spouse?

For context, and not to drip feed, I’m currently holding a boundary around his actual verbal abuse and he has admitted to it in counselling and we are working through that. He has also previously labelled my behaviour abusive in counselling and when I’ve asked him to clarify if he really does mean that, he says no and agrees that it’s not abusive what I do.

So - WIBU?

Was what I did abuse in your eyes?

How much do you feel and show irritation with your partner/spouse?

I am putting my hard hat on in preparation. I am also about to out so thank you in advance to anyone who replies and I will come back and check in later if I don’t have time now.

Yeah. I am able to do that sometimes. I got an apology recently to my surprise.

That’s good advice. Thank you. I’m doing grey rock but also trying to allow a space in counselling to unpick his behaviour. Regardless of whether we stay together or not I want to be sure the boundary around verbal abuse is clear and strong.

There's not enough here to know if it's abuse. That would be a prolonged pattern of controlled, coercive and belittling tactics. Some that aren't always obvious to victims.

It's common for abusers to turn it onto the partner and call them the abuser. It's part of a manipulation tactic. When an abuser grinds someone down so much the victim will often feel they're going crazy and may flip one day whilst the abuser sits back calmly smiling ' see, told you, you're crazy/abusive etc etc '

Key things to look out for in yourself or partner id say are

• continued consistent refusal to take accountability. For example saying ' you're too sensitive ' ' it was just a joke' , ' can't you take a joke'. This would set off every radar I have.

• continued belittling, name calling. Undermining the person rather than saying I don't like this particular behaviour.

There's so much more, but the top 2 examples are good ones to consider.

Bloody hell. That’s bonkers!! Sorry you are going through that.

I manage my emotions pretty well three weeks in four - in the face of some high expressed emotion. Before my period I find it harder

You have more tolerance and patience 3 weeks out of 4 for his bullshit. The other week you stand up to him.

That’s why I brought it here. I am trying to make sure I take responsibility for any part I play but without allowing him to gaslight me. It’s a difficult balance.

He wasn’t shut down btw. I just asked him to clarify if he genuinely saw it as abuse and he said no. He often uses hyperbolic and generalising negative language when describing me and my tactic is to ask if it’s fact. We then unpicked the incident and he got a full and heart felt apology. The incident discussed was me saying something completely fine but in a cross way because, again, he had dismissed me.
But I was wrong to speak angrily so I apologised.

I still stand up to him but in a much calmer way and from a regulated way. Sometimes I’m too exhausted to though.

It's sounds exhausting to live with.

It’s so so exhausting.

Rip the plaster off and say you're done?

Has he told you that? Does he blame your hormones etc.? Don't allow him to invalidate your feelings on that week. Those feelings are probably always there, you just push them down/ignore them for most of the time.

It’s not that simple. I have nowhere to go. I’m working on that.

Thanks. It’s something I’ve noticed. The feelings are always there but I can manage it better when my hormones are settled. I can stay regulated and calm and don’t get sucked into this kind of crap. Another week I’d have stayed calm and just said ‘yes, it’s possible, do you want to do it?’

Hang on in there, I'm sure you will manage your emotions so much better when you aren't having to deal with that regularly.

OP all this unpicking must ne having an effect on how much time to parent. The danger with unpicking is that you are so hyper focused on him, that you forget the affect on you and your child. There's no answers for why daily abusive men are the way they are. I'm also always puzzled why women start to worry about in the future if you can be in the same room. He will completely change once you are out of the marriage, you will be the devil incarnate unless he's got another woman to impress. He thinks that you are completely incompetent and he's supposed to be your life partner. Once you leave him, you are going to drop down even further. Do you think that your child wants to witness this treatment of you? If this relationship carries on your child will be a anxious mess. There will be no point to putting effort into parenting because you will destroy their MH.

But you're blaming yourself /your hormones when your feelings are absolutely valid. What you're saying is that you have to ignore your feelings/wishes for most of the time and when you voice them (that week), it causes conflict. So you can never have a voice? Does he ever listen to you?