AIBU or is DH....crypto and finances one...

[CryptoMadDH]

Not sure how much info to include so I'll try be succinct, no intention to drip feed so sorry if stuff is missing...

DH is really into crypto, done tons of research and sounds like he knows what he's on about (I wouldn't know, no clue or interest in crypto, maybe I should). He's started looking into investment and crypto and has set up VUSAs? And has crypto wallets etc.

We've had a big disagreement as he wants to throw a lot of money into crypto for the next few months in preparation for a 'bull run' - which I'm guessing is basically when prices rocket and profit can be made. I'm saying he cant put all his spare cash in each month as there's leisure, social etc...he's saying I'm shortsighted with this.

Brief preface: together 14 years since teenagehood. Married. Dc. He's a great dad, great/affectionate/loving husband...hands on does way more than his share and is supporting me with doing more cleaning/managing life admin/all dc stuff whilst I'm working and doing my masters. We're terrible at saving (well, I am, impulsive ADHD and binge buy). I'm very risk averse and he believes no risk no reward.

AIBU to be so risk averse? Am I being shortsighted??

Agree it’s gambling. But if you spend that much money on clothes he should be able to spend the same on crypto. However if it’s the family savings my dh putting it all in crypto would trigger our divorce. (I’m in investment management)

Have a budget for personal spends each per month…you spend yours on clothes, etc as you currently do and he can use his towards bitcoin or whatever if that’s what he wants to do 🤷‍♀️

I was going to say what others here have said already - think of it as gambling and don’t invest more than you can lose. This bill run nonsense will, if it happens, almost certainly result in ordinary investors being unable to sell at the peak and losing money. If he wants to invest sensibly, I suggest he sets up a Hargreaves Lansdown account, puts some money in tracker funds and watches them grow over several years. Berkshire Hathaway don’t pay dividends so there’s no dividend tax to worry about -only capital gains tax on the gain if you sell them. Otherwise, a FTSE 100 tracker or a Legal and General US tracker. It will grow faster than a standard bank account with 0.1% interest. There is a bit of risk, but not much compared with Bitcoin. You can put it into an ISA for added tax protection.

I work in algo trading. I spend my life getting paid to work out how you can make money in the markets.

My observations:

• if all these ‘traders’ on youtube that husbands everywhere are watching on the toilet really made so much money trading crypto, they wouldn’t be selling courses and making videos.
• When they’re winning, they’re clever. If they’re losing, they’re unlucky.
• If they spent more than 2 minutes looking at the current market structure they would realise that it is virtually impossible for them to make money in the long term, because there are firms on the other side of the book who have the brains, infra, resources, latency etc. well beyond the wildest dreams of aforementioned middle aged man watching crypto youtube videos on the toilet.

Needless to say my investments are in ETFs.

Agree with previous posters, only put in what you're willing to lose. I have a relatively small amount in crypto, and wouldn't lose sleep over it if it went south and I'm far from wealthy! More "maybe this will buy me a luxurious cruise next year" than setting myself up for retirement. My partner has made a killing from it and seems to know what he's doing, but the time of making ridiculous returns has come and gone I feel.

You also need to know when to get out, and with all gambles of course that time may never come.

I'd probably agree to put a small, set amount into bitcoin each month and avoid alt coins. But again, the same money you'd spend on frivolous things otherwise!

Most crypto is like a ponzi scheme. The first few to invest do ok and the rest just lose money. And these days, everyone is just the rest.

Whenever I have got carried away and put a bit money into whatever the latest thing 'people on the internet' invest in I don't do well. Thankfully, I only punt a little into them and the rest into sensible funds.

I've never gone directly into cryto but did invest money into a crypto tracker fund. It has increased by 400% over the last 5 years. Sadly, as it was a bit of a fun punt, I only put £500 into it!

Other posters have it.

He isn't investing, he is at best, speculating, worse gambling, and possibly being scammed.

Crypto has no intrinsic merit or underlying value. It is only worth what the community thinks it's worth.

There might be a bull run. But it might go to zero overnight. FTX was supported (shilled) by celebrities and went to zero. TerraLuna was supposed to be one of the 'safe' ones, and it went to zero.

I like watching finance YouTube videos on the toilet as much as any man, but don't touch this stuff.

What's a VUSA Op?

Don't do it! It destroyed my relationship and my ex DP had a full on mental breakdown.
He's been in it now for 4 / 5 years. Still not made any money. Still trying. It's ridiculous.

My ex did ftx. Swore blind it wasn't a scam. I kept saying take some money out of it. Then you'll know if it's real.

But his sponsor saying no leave it in as you'll lose out. So he did. But of course it was a load of crap. Lost all his money. Fool.

All it takes is influencers who seem to know what they are talking about predicting a bull market and everyone starts talking about it and so raising the hype to get more people interested and then they do exactly what those at the top of the pyramid want and they all buy into it. Increasing the rich ones profits. As they are the only ones who make anything.

Let him throw as much of his own money at it. Not family money. So when it fails you're not affected.

And the money he makes is of course his to spend. Not that he'll make anything....

Yes, to some degree I suspect you're right with this. Maybe I just view mine as more acceptable as it's tangible stuff I'm getting.

Something to do with stocks and shares I think? Need to read up more on it if I'm honest!

Thank you all for offering me some perspective and also some alternative views on this.

It helps me to view it as gambling as then I can process it in my mind as some type of risk I can actually understand (albeit uncomfortably as I still don't like risk!)

All it takes is influencers who seem to know what they are talking about predicting a bull market and everyone starts talking about it and so raising the hype to get more people interested and then they do exactly what those at the top of the pyramid want and they all buy into it. Increasing the rich ones profits. As they are the only ones who make anything.

This, OP. I've watched the crypto market now for 3 years via my Etoro account where I do other share dealing and dabble in a bit of crypto. The ones making YouTube videos really are promoting pyramid schemes. No one can predict what will happen with a market but that "bull run" that's coming is caused by lots of people investing at the same time. When the interest peaks, the big boys convince everyone to wait while they take their millions out at the higher price and very quickly, the price plummets again.

Crypto is very volatile. I've got one that I put £50 into in 2021 that's worth £6.50 now, which is a shame as the fundamental tech was better than the one underpinning Bitcoin and I really thought it was going somewhere. Imagine if I'd put £50,000 into that instead, though, and lost all but £650. People say to "HODL" (hold on for dear life) when the price goes low, but some cryptocurrencies never recover. A lot of the companies that offer investing of the weird and wonderful "up and coming" (nope) cryptocurrencies have disappeared or gone bust.

Every 6-12 months some "influencer" (or group of influencers working in cahoots) in the crypto world comes out trying to create a sense of urgency that the time to invest in this specific currency is NOW.

If DH is determined to do this, get him to watch the market for 1-2 years with very small investments, track how they do, compare it to historic data, and then when he sees what happens with it all, he'll maybe try investing in the actual stock market which is much more rewarding and intellectually challenging.

Edited as Dupe post

Why don’t you invest the same amount each month into a Stocks and Shares Isa (available with banks etc) and see who makes the most at the end of a few years? I bet yours will be a steady growth and his will be all over the place.

He can still invest in things for the excitement, just something that has more chance of making you something back. Like Fundsmith Equity. Time Not Timing! Long term investments are better.

It's not an investment in the normal sense of the word, because you aren't buying into part of a business that generates an income, or buying an asset that generates an income. You're buying something purely in the hope that more people will want to buy it in the future, but has no intrinsic value in and of itself.

It's exactly the same as Tulips. I would keep well away.

I've asked about this and we do actually have one of these also, so that's something.

Thank you everyone for the information

I only do Bitcoin. I put about a grand in four years ago. It crashed and was rubbish but has soared back up to 3.5 k.
It's my long-term funeral fund.

This is exactly how I see it - gambling. That's fine (as long as you can have a healthy attitude to it) but it comes out of the entertainment budget not the investment pot and even if you don't lose it, you should expect a pretty wild ride due to the volatility.

If that sounds like it'd make you miserable and stressed because you can't afford to lose the amounts he's talking about then don't do it.

Personally I find it quite interesting. I've had weeks where on paper I've both made and lost more than my annual salary, which is bonkers but it's not really a basis for the family nest egg.

How odd, I posted and literally as I posted MN his my post!

Its high risk, but your approach of wasting money is worse

Timing the market is much harder than time in the market. As they say