To be depressed about how expensive but shyt the UK is

[OptimismvsRealism]

God it's expensive God it's shit

Please regale me with examples of how other places are also shit and it's not just here

But the same people complaining here are complaining about Labour too.

When Labour increase taxes, they will moan about that

When Tories spent, they moaned about that

They want better funded everything and don't want to contribute to it

That’s you saying that not other posters.

On here and the multiple other posts about how shit the UK is and how shit the NHS.

Tbey want a fully funded NHS at no expense to them.

Go and read the threads, might give you something else to moan about.

@YellowphantGrey the idea you get great services and fairly low personal tax are for the birds unless you operate a system like Switzerland - where most things are extortionate but wages are high -

Personally I preferred the system when we lived in Denmark, high wages, higher tax, better quality services - but far more covered off from taxation- good childcare was cheap, far more social housing if good quality ,transport quite reasonable, no such thing as council tax etc.

Problem is here those with cash and influence wouldn't like it -nor would a lot of older people who see it as paying tax for stuff they no longer need or use ( childcare, social housing etc)

This is what I mean. I got shot down on the latest NHS slating thread because people don't want to pay more tax or pay for parts of the NHS because they want a fully funded service

Where have they said “at no expense to them”?

I’ll just focus on the shit my kids have to face thanks to a broken NHs, environment, housing, education system….

@YellowphantGrey totally agree-

The two main parties in Ireland are centre left. Def not Tory who are to the right. Have never defunded public sector, public services etc

Fine Gael are in the European People's Party - this is the same European grouping the Tories were in until Cameron took them out of it.
Fianna Fail are in ALDE - the same European grouping the Liberal Democrats and over centrist liberal parties are in (like the quite right-wing on economic issues FDP in Germany)

There is a TV programme on RTÉ called reeling in the years, where they stitch together archive footage to tell a story of that year's news, sport, culture, etc. There was an episode for 2015 recently, back when the trolley crisis in Irish hospitals was new. This is where people admitted to hospital don't have a bed so they end up on trolleys in corridors, broom cupboards, or propped up on seats. All a big shock, pledges of action to deal with it, etc. It's now 2024, and the situation is the same, except that the numbers are higher, and it's a year-round problem rather than one that exists during the winter peak.

Irish politicians have normalised the idea of a winter crisis in the health service that every year they announce a "winter plan" to cope with it, rather than, y'know, funding the service properly to begin with. The HSE in Ireland is a picture of what the NHS would look like if Britain experienced another decade or two of intense austerity. It's why health insurance is massively more prevalent (and more expensive) in Ireland. It's more expensive because the health insurance companies know they will have to pay out on more, and they know the health service is bad enough that people will pay.

Ireland is currently swimming in cash, running a budget surplus, but the HSE has recruitment freezes, children are regularly told there isn't a school place for them, council officials make up rules to turn people away from homeless services because there's no emergency accommodation left - the underfunding of public services in Ireland is chronic because both the main parties are on the right and have pursued essentially the same policies since the state was founded.

What on earth would make you think the two main parties here were on the centre left?

This is definitely NOT the norm. I waited 9 months to be seen by a specialist, and guess what, after 9 months I got asked if I still needed to be seen, so said no because I went abroad to my home country to get seen privately.Yes, I had to pay for it, but I could afford there - in the UK it’d have cost me significantly more.

I am now pregnant and soon won’t be able to travel abroad to be seen by a doctor. Getting a dentist over here is bloody impossible - you have to go private and pay hundreds for a simple treatment. How is this normal?

The cost of trains and public transport in general is ridiculous. Do I even have to mention that the metro tends to stop running to timetable because there are leaves on the tracks, so good luck getting to work on time. That is if the metro actually bothers to arrive in the first place…

Maternity is really poor here in comparison to many EU countries (yes, it’s even worse in the USA). If your work doesn’t offer an enhanced maternity, then how you’re meant to not get in serious debt? You’re only get seen a couple of times by a midwife and get two 2 scans on the NHS during your whole pregnancy. How is this a good care? My sister (who lives in the EU), was seen by a midwife/ gynaecologist every month and had a scan every month too. You can go on a full paid sick leave while you’re pregnant if you feeling unwell and this won’t count as your maternity leave. And before the child is born you also get ~£2,500 (no matter what your income is) as a one off payment to help the parents with the initial costs of purchasing a pram or furniture for the nursery. There are other perks too that you get as a new parent like a child benefit or you can claim some money back for the purchase of school uniforms etc. The difference between the UK and some EU countries is staggering.

The UK used to be amazing that’s why I came here over 15 years ago, but it sadly has lost its shine and I’m looking to move abroad in the next couple of years. There are definitely things that I like about Britain, but it’s nowhere near as great of a country as it used to be.

Analysing their policies what makes me view their policies as centre left, in practice it's where they both sit according to a lot of their policies when they are analysed (on migration, gay marriage, abortion, divorce, their limited stance on nationalism, pro European etc). TBF even Michael Ring came out lately and said they are a centre party and their policies have gone left (too left for too long was what he said).

They are pretty much centre with left leaning policies in more recent years of their history - in Europe ALDE is centre and pro European rather than more right but some of the European groupings are crazy, some of the slightly left go very left too there is a massive variation. TBF there is maybe a difference between where the parties are sitting on social v financial leanings.

Having worked in public sector in UK and Ireland over past 20 years there is a huge difference in how austerity and the crashes were dealt with in both. I don't disagree that the HSE is a shit show that no one has ever managed to fix even when we've had money to throw at it, but the erosion of public services in UK has been far greater (neither of which is ok clearly, and I won't even mention the bike shed!)

I think that recent issues (protests, riots, this 'new' anti immigrant sentiment) has had a change over the summer, a lot of the language being used by FF and FG is tightening, they are starting to reform certain payments etc and I think over the next 12 months we will see a lot more of a swing policy wise to slight right of centre but not to the right. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I agree with @Nogaxeh . Certainly the public sector is a great provider of employment in Ireland. One might argue this is appears to be its main function, rather than provide good services for the ordinary citizen. Mostly in Dublin, although some Ministers bring prizes home to their own Constituency. Cronyism not gone away. This centralisation of services has been ameliorated because of online possibilities now. One might argue that public services were not on a par with other developed European countries to begin with. Outside of Dublin, and maybe other cities, public transport (such as it was) has been replaces in many places by private bus companies. Pathetic countrywide train service. Poor Donegal has none. I remember reading one train route now takes longer than pre independence. Some services so lean to begin with, not worthy of pretending to be a national service. Still no train to main airport despite all the money from Celtic Tiger years (money all piss*d away) Even hilly Lisbon has a train to their airport.

The Progressive Democrats (remember them) were very liberal on social issues, but even more right than Fine Gael on Economics. More US than European slant. I’d say the Irish parties are somewhat Conservative in many things. Certainly not left wing, if that means more proper provision of services, distribution, transparency and equality for the ordinary citizen. Don’t think rights and conditions for women are uppermost of those in their minds either. That may just be the influence of especially misogynistic ministers and Taoiseach in last gov’t though. Leo lending his full support to the fellow who bashed women in boxing in the Olympics, I see. Men can get a birth certificate to say they are a woman. Think this was ushered in with something like a 84% male Dáil (parliament). Granted this was better than Iran who in 2020 were on 6% rather than 16% women at that Dail.
https://womensspaceireland.ie/articles/should-men-be-in-a-womens-prison/

They can do this online. There is now a court case about one such man (fellow who was incarcerated as danger to women) who was put into a woman’s prison who is threatening to rape and kill actual women who are unfortunate to be locked up with him. Also has viciously attacked the women guards. Doesn’t appear to be a problem for the majority of TD’s. New misogynistic ideology to replace Catholic Church. Plus ca change. Ssh, don’t mention it. We’re so progressive’ aren’t we? Who cares about actual violence against women anyway? Just say the words. The majority of the burden of care is placed on the shoulders of women. Well, there is so little public provision to ease that burden. To add insult to injury, respite care to give a break to said women, was also gold dust. Childcare provision and costs would be looking very far from countries such as Sweden. The only saviour is for those who have good extended family support.

Huge proliferation of NGO’s given tax payers money to fund what would once have been just voluntary organisations funded by equally voluntary donations. Not sure if all to the benefit to the ordinary citizen rather than the hobby horse interests of those involved. Maybe some even actively pushing stuff contrary to the interests of the ordinary citizen. Can’t remember the event, but so many Irish (receiving money from public purse) NGO reps travelled to it that someone made a joke wondering if anything else existed in Ireland.

Fun Fact. Fine Gael had their very own Fascists called the Blueshirts. https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/without-the-blueshirts-there-would-have-been-no-fine-gael-1.4399082 . Of course, this was in the past, and they just became a slightly right of middle Conservative European Party.

The Labour Party existed, but Ireland two main parties for a long time, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are residual of the Civil War. Not really a traditional left and right traditional divide as with other European countries. Fianna Fáil were against the Treaty with the UK, and the precursor to Fine Gael were in support of it. FF were regarded as slightly left of centre, and FG slightly right. FF were in power for so long that they introduced many necessary infrastructure and social welfare measures (such as they were). Maybe that is why they are regarded as being left of centre.

At the moment, according to CSO, 21% of electricity is being gobbled up by the data processing centres being hosted by Ireland. It was 5% in 2015. With the Carbon emissions limits, I suspect the ordinary citizen, especially farmers, will be firmly chastised (or disbenefited in some way) to enable this increasing provision.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/07/23/electricity-consumption-by-data-centres-rises-to-21-eclipsing-urban-households/

It is very pretty, though. And most ordinary people aren’t pushing the hypocritical bs. As proven by the huge no vote in the referendum which seemed to be trying to pretend that women don’t predominantly shoulder the burden of care. Without any real commitment to public service provision. Being sold a pup, in other words. A referendum pushed by the supposedly ‘progressive’ politicians. And the vast swathe of NGO’s receiving tax money.

@Fakirek oh that is interesting. I don't understand why you don't move now to the EU to obtain full paid extended maternity leave, 9 free scans (personally I wouldn't want too many, but can understand some need constant reassurance) and a £2500 bung.

As I previous said to a PP who failed to reply, transport is reliable in my area. You can't speak for the whole of the UK.

It must be 'EU speak' to generalise because EU people never refer to their country. It's like their country has been wiped out.

Yes you only get the two scans in pregnancy but if you need more you get them. I have had about six during my pregnancies with the NHS.

I could move back but my husband is Scottish so it’s not that easy. The industry he works in is quite niche and while his options to find employment would be smaller, he doesn’t speak another language so it’s going to limit his options even further.

I just think it’s important to talk about what services and care you’re able to get in other countries and this seems to be less available over here. We both have good jobs and don’t struggle at the moment but on one income and meagre maternity pay it’s going to be difficult. We don’t have our families around either so we’ll need to pay for nurseries or child minders etc.

All I’m trying to say that for working hard all my life, never claiming benefits, paying taxes and contributing to society, I get very little back when trying to access the NHS or dental care. These services seem to be available in other counties as a minimum as part of the basic care.

It’s great that the public transport is good in your area, it’s not in the north east where I live. I tend to cycle most places as the number of times the metro didn’t run and I had to take a taxi to get places on time is ridiculous.

@Labyrinthian - I think the fact that both those parties originate from a Republican war against British occupation has created a legacy where they can sound a bit left wing, particularly on foreign policy. But in terms of economics, taxation, state provision of public services they're pretty firmly on the right.

The point @Cailleach1 makes about a client vote is pretty important. A lot of people in my area vote for the local TD because they're involved in organising a bus to take people to Belfast for cataract operations. So, they didn't sort out provision of the service locally, they created a way whereby people had to be grateful for the personal intervention of the local politician.

It can look like a lot of public spending, but the way it is organised is not left wing in my view.

The old adage 'all politics is local' is still truly alive! The abolition of the dual mandate should have made an impact but somewhere as small as we are, I think it's impossible that the personal element will ever go away.

Good things about the uk: attractive countryside; historic buildings; some free and amazing museums and art galleries all dependant upon where you live. Feel I can speak confidently re other countries as I have friends ( ex pats) who live in New Zealand, France, Italy and Spain. Every single one went out temporarily but chose to stay. Most have been gone 12 years plus. A myth that our long demised “ free” health care is superior - France and Italy far outclass ( as do hospitals in Egypt IF you have private health care!) - a friend even chose to return to Ukraine to receive follow up health care unavailable without a mammoth wait in Uk!! Their other positives- fresher and significantly better quality food for lower cost, some free transport, healthier and less costly lifestyle options (free outdoor gyms, entertainment , clean swimming areas, bars/ restaurants where you can eat and socialise for lower costs and of course better weather!) Downsides? Even more red tape than here to get services connected, sexist attitudes prevail more openly, hot weather can be totally unbearable unless can afford decent aircon and to avoid going out in peak heat, politics volatile ( even more so than here) and moving to draconian right with racism also in some of those countries more openly evident/ expressed than here. Nowhere is perfect but feel in Uk we are paying and working more to receive substantially less - and the option to move has been severely curtailed unless you have money for golden visas or alternative passport options.

My daughter is currently living on an Air Force Base in Idaho, she is genuinely horrified at the prices there, then they add even more by tax added at the checkout! The only thing she has found cheaper is fuel for the car. American prices are really expensive. I am sending her food parcels 😂😂😂

And yet, if we were to build houses of that type rather than the favoured executive type, just maybe the councils could meet their building targets and the houses would be affordable to a wider range of people. Hmm.

Not that cold. It’s not Siberia, or Finland. Rain means good grass, and in winter repletes the water table. No dangerous heatwaves or droughts. No volcanic activity, or bad earthquakes. Or, those awful tornados and hurricanes some regions suffer from.

Here’s hoping the Gulf Stream doesn’t stop. Otherwise, it would be cold.

Same applies to Ireland. Lovely, mild temperate oceanic climates.

Yes we get floods but no other natural disasters.

Interestingly people go on about plenty of rain - lots of Northern Europe gets plenty of rain but I must admit whenever my H goes over to areas like Stuttgart or Munich in summer and even when we lived in Copenhagen- we also seemed to get way more lovely sunny summer days.- AND still got enough rain not to have drought issues