To ask: Does being “Mr Nice Guy” really get you anywhere in life?

[QuirkyKhakiExpert]

I’ve been thinking a lot about the idea of the “Nice Guy” - you know, the person who is always agreeable, goes out of their way to help others, and tries to avoid conflict. While it seems like being nice would naturally lead to positive outcomes in relationships and life, I can’t help but wonder if it actually works that way.

Do people often take advantage of kindness? Does being overly nice sometimes lead to being overlooked or taken for granted? I’ve seen discussions suggesting that this approach might not always yield the best results, and I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

Have you found that being the “Nice Guy” pays off, or does it come with more downsides?

People take advantage of 'nice guys' and suck up to the ones they find more threatening. Huge generalisation but I think true to a degree.

I think there's a difference between being nice and being a doormat, which is what you seem to be describing.

Being nice isn't about tying to get a payoff, though, is it? I don't think it gets you much, but it's still worthwhile. (Also worthwhile to stand up for yourself etc. but those aren't mutually exclusive!)

Nice is a very beige, meaningless word. It's the kind of thing I would say about someone inoffensive but unmemorable.

You can be kind, warm, funny, caring - while still having self confidence and being able to assert yourself.

Nice on this thread seems to be being used as a synonym for pushover, people pleaser, weak willed - I don't think that is nice, that seems more indicative of someone with low self esteem or who is afraid to stand up to people

I don’t avoid conflict but I do try to talk it out as calmly as possible. Sadly, only this year, with marriage crumbling at the mo, am beginning to think no, it doesn’t get you far BUT I will not give it up. The world needs smiles, people to listen and see the other side, tell jokes, hug and cheer people up xxxx

Nice on this thread seems to be being used as a synonym for pushover, people pleaser, weak willed - I don't think that is nice, that seems more indicative of someone with low self esteem or who is afraid to stand up to people
But do you think that maybe that’s just the way you see it? Say I go out with a group of friends and two or three of us say we don’t mind what we do whereas the others really want to go somewhere specific? We can talk for hours and thrash it out or just go enjoy being together!!! Or a relative asks me to do something and it’s not absolutely out of my way to do it- on mn people call you a people pleaser, irl why not? The amount of threads with people arguing about their boundaries and saying they’re standing their ground when a HUGE amount of times they could have just helped that person out- doesn’t mean your weak or have low self esteem, you just don’t mind!

In my experiences with men, there are the "nice guys" who are nice to you, eg they'll give you a lift when your car is out of action, ask how your mum is doing, look after your dog sometimes, but all the while thinking that's what will get them laid. Then they're seriously resentful that none of their "kindness" had ever "lead to anything". That's not being a nice guy.

The other type is just genuinely thoughtful and doesn't expect anything. Naturally at ease in himself and comfortable to be around. That's a genuine "nice guy".

There is only a downside if you're the first type.

Being a ruthless selfish narcissist obviously has it's material advantages too, but these people are notoriously unhappy.

I'm just looking at one use of the term "nice guy" here. You might be thinking about women.

In every interaction there is the goal (e.g. where you go for dinner) and the relationship (e.g. how important it is to you). Each place on that graph has a type of communication. For example if the goal is vital and the relationship isn't important, confrontation is fine. But if you don't care where you eat, and the people are really important, passive is fine.

It's people who pretend the goal isn't important, to preserve even unimportant relationships, using passive all the time, they're the people pleasers. And people who pretend the goal is always important and people never are, who use aggressive all the time, they're the arseholes.

I was about to say the same! I found in the past that I've 'trained' people to expect a high level of agreeability from me, so that they are more pissed off at push-back from me than from other less people pleasing types. Since I've made an active decision to be less 'nice' a lot of people have been very unhappy with me and I've lost a few friends and acquaintances as a result. I wish I'd been taught about healthy boundaries as a kid.

I think it depends whether Nice Guy is also a people pleaser or otherwise ineffective at putting boundaries in place and whether they genuinely like other people.

I know a few people pleasers who don’t say “No” when it things don’t suit them and they do end up being taken advantage of. They seem like nice guys at first but because they aren’t honest about what suits them they either end up getting overwhelmed and a bit resentful when people keep asking for things they keep saying yes to, or they’re hard work because you have to second guess whether they are genuinely happy to do whatever you’re suggesting.

But some of my favourite friends are nice guys (and gals) who are always friendly and helpful, a pleasure to be around, etc. but they don’t put everyone else’s needs before their own. They’re really nice about saying no, but they do say it when whatever is being suggested doesn’t work for them. I think because they genuinely like a wide range of other people they’re probably happier saying yes to more things than average, but then they enjoy whatever they’ve said yes to.

Ime people do take the piss out of " nice" people. Especially in the workplace.
I had very low self esteem as a child due to abuse and wanted to be liked...it didn't lead to pupularity...just more abuse.
Gosh i sound so woe is me!
Luckily dd is a very bolshy character but also very kind to her friends but not scared to tell them if they are being mean or unreasonable...she will go far!

Completely agree regarding coming across as too nice in the workplace. You're at risk of being seen as weak and open to being bullied and harassed by male colleagues because they perceive you as a pushover.

Females also see you as a push over tbh. I work in a mostly female environment and many who are high up are stern, no shit types but can also be quite mean. The main boss is lovely though.
In my former role, the borderline aggressive boss favoured similar bolshy and aggressive people giving them promotions.

Borderline aggressive boss was female btw.

Yes you're right it isnt just a man thing. I was just thinking about it in terms of the majority of people I've found to be unpleasant and bolshy have been men, but women are at it too!

Ive found it useful to be nice on the outside and steely calm on the inside. That really gets the bullies going because they don't quite know what to make of me. Has helped me when a bully tries to beat me down and I give them a taste of their own medicine, and through official lines. It's great to be misjudged and to see them get their comeuppance.

That’s not “nice’, though, that’s people-pleasing because you think it will make people like you. Like @MrsTerryPratchett says about a specific type of ‘nice guy’ who thinks it’s a matter of ’put In nice, get sex’ and gets cross when this doesn’t work, the people-pleaser (statistically more like to be female) thinks relationships work on the basis of ‘put in nice, get friendship’ and gets cross when that doesn’t work.

I think there is a big difference in being "nice" - being decent, kind, and understanding human being - and being a total spineless walkover. You can still call out shitty behaviour as long as you are polite, fair and stick to the facts.

I do think though that its easier being nice if you don't depend on anyone.

I think your definition of 'nice' is a bit muddled to be honest.

It's not a choice between being a nice person or considering your own needs.

You can be both.

People who get a balance between treating others well and fulfilling their own needs tend to do well in life.

MrsTerryPratchett

then I’m probably a people pleaser- I don’t really care as long as I get to spend time with people because I live far enough from family and friends or am busy enough to not see people local to me often enough.

But why do you need to people-please in order to spend time with people? Are you saying you think people won’t want to be friends with you unless you prioritise their wishes over your own? It’s perfectly possible to say no and still have friends.

I don’t- we meet in a group and everyone says where will we meet and I just say I don’t mind! It’s easy!

There is a huge difference between being "nice" and being "kind". Kind people benefit but nice people dont.

Nice people typically people please and that benefits noone - you attract people who take advantage, you have poor boundaries, your stress levels are through the roof because you give to everyone and never respect your own needs or wants which causes resentment to build up over time and it can detrimentally affect both your mental and physical health over time. Equally, you avoid confrontation and dont express your true authentic self which causes noone to know the real you and you end up frustrated and feeling taken advantage of. You also take too much responsibility for the happiness of others.

Being "nice" is a trap many of us fall into and it's deeply unhealthy. It's a complete myth that to be a good person you have to ride roughshod over your own personal boundaries or selflessly put others first in every single scenario. Taking care if yourself first is not selfish, you cannot be there for anyone else if you are mentally and physically drained - that helps noone.

Being too "nice" is utterly toxic.

Love this.
Great advice

I can honestly say that I've been one of those 'nice guys'. The affect of this has been positive and negative:

Negatives: not promoted, higher workload, most difficult workload, included in discussions when someone agreeable is needed.

Positives: I will (hopefully) retire with my self-respect and with a range of former colleagues as long term true friends.

NB. Some of the worst bullying I've witnessed has been woman to woman, it's not a sex/gender thing in my experience.

Weird. I had a conversation about this last week. I absolutely hate the "nice guy" cliche and I always have. If someone has more than a passing acquaintance with me and all they can describe me as is a "nice guy", I'd be disappointed. Yes, on the face of things I'm nice, but there's a lot more to me that I would hope people find appealing.

I see nice as a baseline but it depends how that presents and it isn't enough on it's own. It doesn't exclude people from having more dynamic personality traits to go with it. It also doesn't mean people need to be pushovers, you can still be "nice" and have boundaries. It's all about balance.

When I hear people complain that they don't get anywhere by by being nice - either in life or relationships - I always wonder what else they're lacking and why nice is all they can cling to as a label for themselves. It's the same for other traits to be fair, if you're only able to define your personality by one narrow trait, you'll have the same problem.