To be furious

[Threelittleduck]

How has the NHS come to this? My DD had a seizure in the summer. We went to hospital but discharged later.
Nothing has happened but today she had two seizures. One at around 9 and one an hour ago. Called ambulance after her seizure at 9, they said it would be hours for an ambulance but 4 hours? After she's had a second seizure? I can't drive her as had a Covid jab yesterday and am feeling sick and dizzy and DH has been drinking.
I mean thank fuck it's not life threatening! (I know she'd be higher priority before anyone takes that seriously).
She's asleep on the sofa now and I'm sat with her, feeling tired, ill and worried about DD
Is this what the country has come to? Is that government actually going to do anything to help our healthcare system and support those who work in it.

I called 999 for a patient with suspected sepsis last week.
Took an hour.
I'm not surprised TBH - if she doesn't need paramedic support and is now sleeping on the sofa then you need to get her there under your own steam...

A taxi isn't an ambulance (to quote a PP)

No, they don’t take four hours to arrive so can get someone, who has been deemed able to wait four hours by the ambulance service, to hospital rather quicker.

I used to live in the UK and I did have a medical emergency and I got myself to hospital in a taxi. I just think if they tell you its 4 hours it is because they have deemed the type of seizure is not an emergency as much as other emergencies that are happening when you call it in. So in those circumstances, you get in a taxi and you get there yourself if you do not wish to wait 4 hours.

The NHS simply is overburdened with too many people using the service and not enough funding and some of the funding no doubt being wasted on managerial positions from what I hear from nursing friends who work in it and see those positions being overpaid and making little impact so that fat could be cut I suppose. The point is that our family pay- our employer pays 30k- a lot to pay for our access to health care and we still pay if we want to call out an ambulance so I think people in the UK are not really aware how much health care actually costs since they do not pay for it at the point of service.

I never call out an ambulance here as I don't want to pay 1000-1700 for it and that' is the cost for the 45 minute journey and medical staff who come in that vehicle over here so even in the NHS the cost of that ambulance is significant so if you can, get in your own vehicle or a taxi as there just as not enough ambulances to go round all the high level emergencies anymore.

People in the UK are going to have to accept paying higher NI contributions if they want shorter wait times, I am not sure what the average person pays in NI but I doubt it is 30 k a year. I don't love the US private system but I do know that if I have a cancer scare I am in for a scan within two weeks over here and I guess when it comes to it that makes the system ultimately work to save my life and the lives of my family members ultimately. I have now had two family members die through NHS slowness to get scans and the long wait for the ambulance so whilst the care is good when you get in there.....it's getting the care that is an issue.

I hope the OP's daughter is on the mend, it is scary to have a medical incident wth your child and not be able to get what you need. Now she knows not to count on an ambulance coming quickly unless it is a high level emergency, so lesson learned.

I sympathise, but the problems within the NHS stem from years of underfunding and it's unreasonable to expect the incoming government to have sorted them out already. It will take years. Direct your anger at your husband. In all the circumstances, couldn't he have stayed off alcohol for one evening?

Yes the ambulance would be the best option but they were told it was a 4 hour wait , which is very worrying for parents, so you would want an option to drive your 16 year old kid there.
Even if I’d had a Covid jag or I had to get taxi service or friends/ neighbours. I’d want a back up option to get my child to hospital, especially as she’s was waiting on further medical investigation of her condition.

its not right and it’s awful for the family and I really hope they are okay!

All of this.

just so you know the NHS is not free to visitors from overseas if we have to go into hospital- our US insurance would reimburse us and we would have to pay for that hospital care. A and E is free, so long as you are not admitted, you just may have to wait 11-12 hours as we discovered on one trip we made and found we had to access it and it was very shocking how long the wait time was- we offered to pay but the billing system is only in place if you are admitted onto a ward, but that is in place.

NHS per night is I believe somewhat less than we pay in the US where hospital stays with minimum procedures run at 5k to 10 k a day/night- this is without any surgery involved so just your bed and nursing care maybe a scan, a drip and blood work. I don't think the NHS is quite as much as that because it is not run as a business thank goodness and let's hope it never is...but it cannot go in in the form it is today. Total restructure is required. Sadly in the last 24 hours there will be people who have died in the UK waiting for an ambulance. And again tomorrow.

No need for a lecture, you don’t live here anymore, you don’t need to tell UK citizens they are going to have to accept paying higher N.I contributions, people who live here are already aware of this.in your previous comment you were saying the nhs is free!

Hi there
I know how frightening it is our baby had her first fit at 9 months old rang for a ambulance they couldn't find our address even though had to have a ambulance the year before as husband had a blood clot in the lungs and were fantastic getting here (we do live rural)
Sorry 9 month old had a fit and couldn't find our address so drove her there myself local hospital is half an hour away by the time I get her there they had to breath for her about 12 hospital staff in with her sorting her out thank God can't thank them enough 🙏 💙 she then had another fit while at familys they kept us on the phone for 28 mins the whole time still in the fit, we kept asking should we just drive her ourselves they kept saying your high priority for then no-one to turn up and had to drive her ourselves I know that they are snowed under and we do live rural but I just wished they had said from the start to take her it's all abit of a mess I fell sorry for them working and sorry for the people needing help

Though unlike the US, all UK residents can access healthcare via the NHS (even if they have to wait).

If they are willing to do so.

An ambulance isn’t a taxi service, it’s there for providing emergency medical care in the home or on the way to the hospital.
I have a DH with epilepsy so I do understand how distressing it is witnessing a seizure can be but in 30 years I’ve only called an ambulance once when he couldn’t breathe and was turning blue. All other times if he needed A&E (which is rare as they can’t actually do much for him there) I’ve called a taxi.
From our experience, the best thing to do following a seizure is to keep them well rested and warm and comfortable. Keep an eye on them as it is common to have another one soon after. Then get in touch with GP or consultant. My DH has always hated coming round in hospital with the glaring lights, strangers etc.

I would imagine this is a simple case of the ambulance service didn’t think it was a priority. The NHS page on what to do if someone has a seizure says:

When to call an ambulance
Call 999 and ask for an ambulance if:

• it's the first time someone has had a seizure
• the seizure lasts longer than is usual for them
• the seizure lasts more than 5 minutes, if you do not know how long their seizures usually last
• the person does not regain full consciousness, or has several seizures without regaining consciousness
• the person is seriously injured during the seizure
• the person has difficulty breathing after the seizure

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/what-to-do-if-someone-has-a-seizure-fit/

If none of the above applied I imagine it simply wasn’t considered a Cat 1 or even perhaps not even a Cat 2 emergency, hence the extended wait. Did they not suggest you get yourself to the hospital instead?

Agree with this.

At least you’re bashing on the correct thread now. Great for you and your dh. But OP’s child is 16 and had 2 seizures in 4 hours for reasons unknown. Little bit different to your adult dh who has had epilepsy for a very long time.

@Threelittleduck How is your DD?

Please ignore all the nasty posters who think it is OK to be unpleasant to a worried parent.

It always amuses me when people say get a taxi. I cant get taxis,where I live. They just don't operate. I'm 20 miles away from a big town, five from a market town. No one comes out to us unless pre booked and even then they are notorious for not turning up. I'm a hour train from London so surely there must be more rural places than me?

Luckily I own a car, but what if you don't? Your broke, rural etc?

Someone locally drove to hospital having a heart attack breaking the speed limit. I don't blame him.

Plus he passed "your ok to text, you don't need a ambulance" test.

OP I hope your dd is OK. Its easy to judge until you need the ambulance and you realise its not coming. My friends mum was on hold to 999 when doing cpr. Even the most worthy and in need die waiting for ambulances but us British love to do the old stiff upper lip pray to the nhs alter. Free at source means jake shit when you can get a ambulance and you can't do cpr in a car or taxi. Maybe order a minibus taxi to do cpr on the floor is the MN answer? Get all your able bodied neighbours to drag the body on? I found a tiny frail old lady on the street once. I couldn't even lift her as she was dead weight

If it was life threatening they would have given you a shorter response time. The call handlers triage based on the level of urgency and something they don’t consider life threatening will be deprioritised so they can respond more quickly to people who need it.

Part of the problem is people calling 999 when it isn’t an emergency. 999 is for life threatening situations.

The same applies to all NHS services - it’s under strain because of misuse which is driven by people’s entitlement. They turn up to a&e over minor illness or injuries, they keep hassling their GP about referring them to a specialist when it isn’t needed, resulting in pointless referrals which drives up the waiting times for everyone else.

You're right; the Tories letting in nearly 5m people without asking people already here if they were okay to pay for the additional infrastructure, staff, training and houses needed was unforgivable.

@DyslexicPoster your post is so good, you just summed it up.

OP was not doing CPR. The ambulance service triaged her call and decided a four hour wait was ok so the ambulance could attend higher priority situations where the caller might have been doing CPR. Given it had already assessed no medical treatment was needed for the next four hours then driving or taking a taxi (OP has not said taxis were not available so that your taxi situation is irrelevant here) would be an appropriate response.

You’ve taken @DyslexicPoster thread so literally.It was meant to be positive and light hearted.Which was needed in this thread.

Okay the call handler said there would be a wait, they didn't say 4 hours, that was how long I'd been waiting for at that point.
My DH couldn't come with me as we also have a 4 year old so someone had to stay home.
DD had two more seizures at the hospital but they then gave her medicine for epilepsy fits and (touch wood) has been okay since, just totally exhausted.
They have decided not to do a brain scan as it was clear in the summer but she has been moved up the list for neurology clinic so hopefully will be seen this year.
They are keeping her in overnight with a view to discharging her tomorrow with appropriate medication.
And just for the record the ambulance was pulling up when I put they arrived they were not in the house.
Why isn't it possible to text and sit with a child who is sleeping but has also had a seizure? Doctor's recommend you come to hospital in an ambulance so if following their advice makes me entitled then so be it.
Thanks to all those who were supportive and realise dealing with a fitting teenager (especially at night when things seem worse) is scary and worrying.

Thank you for the update OP. Hope you get to the bottom of it all and your dd gets the treatments she needs going forward.

A friend of mines ds had a seizure completely out of blue at midnight when he was about 11. Never had one before, was fit and healthy. Friend rang 999 to be told if the seizure has stopped then that’s fine, just crack on, see Gp routinely! Friend was beside herself, the blase attitude of 999 was astonishing. A fit and healthy child does not have a seizure out of nowhere. One of the most scary times of her life.