Why would you settle for anything less

[valueyourself]

Been on MN for years. Enough years to venture into AIBU.. with some expected outcomes..

I read literally a gazillion posts over the last twenty odd years of women on here who are not in a position they want to be .. I am going to make a caveat before my AIBU (which will no doubt be ignored by many) ...

IF YOU EARN MORE THAN YOUR PARTNER ... DO NOT HAVE ANY NEED IF HIS INCOME TO SUPPORT YOUR FAMILY .. HAVE INDEPENDENT INCOME ... THEN THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR YOU ...

Ok... so why do you have kids with men you do not have a legal contract with. ? BUT actually want to marry ?

Just that .. don't tell me you 'found yourself pregnant' .. you are a grown adult female who knows how this stuff works .. even at say 12 weeks you can ask him ... does he want to marry you and afford you all the rights that marriage confers .. and he says 'no' ... and yet you go on and hope he changes his mind . ? and then as seen time and time again ... it rarely does.

... and then when he finds another you are screwed chasing the incredibly inadequate CSA

Should there be cohabitation laws - yes of course... should the CSA have more teeth - yes .. a thousand times yes .. BUT

If he doesn't think enough of you to marry. (as the law currently stands ) why would you ?

YABU simply because you haven't 'literally read a gazillion posts'.

Fair point .

On the other hand .. I'm not sure a gazillion is an actual number ... I quantify it as 'fuck loads '

I got married when DS was tiny (couldn't afford it when pregnant), DH earnt more but I worked full time too. A failed business means we both still rent and have no savings. He left for the OW and I got to keep any joint debts (can't make him pay, we're married you see) and I can't afford to divorce him, not that there's any point, there's nothing to get off him anyway. Marriage did absolutely nothing for me, except now I'm stuck in the contract until my children are older and I can save the money for divorce 🤷‍♀️

Ok I'll bite-

This isn't specifically me but I'm going to write in first person for ease.

One of my earliest memories is seeing my dad hit my mum repeatedly. I don't know what she had done but I remember feeling scared. I remember my mum telling me she stays with my dad because of me. I'm the reason she gets hit. Sometimes I'd get hit, I remember accidentally getting in the way of the tv once and being kicked across the room like an animal by my dad.
I remember parent teacher meeting and my mum saying I mustn't be very smart if I'm predicted C's at GCSE. I raised the idea of uni and was told it wasn't for someone like me and I wouldn't be getting any support if I tried to go. I didn't know anyone who was planning to go. I left school at 16, I hated it I was bullied for being different. No one cared if I learnt anything, the teachers never saw me as someone worth making an effort for. I got a job in a pub and at 17 I met a lad he was 18. We started going out. Sometimes he would treat me to flowers or cook me a meal. No one had ever treated me like I was special it feels amazing . He takes good care of me too, tells me what I should wear. Helps me realise my friends are not right for me. That I'm a grown up now I shouldn't be trying to lead a single life. I go on the pill but I I'm so focused on being the best girl friend I can be to this man who loves me I forget to take it a couple of times I want him to use a condom but he will get mad if I ask. He's a good man tho he has never hit me. I wouldn't be with a man who hits me. I've learnt from my mum. He gets mad sometimes if teas not ready or if I've not cleaned the house properly but that's because he cares. It's me that needs to do better. He works hard and he looks after me. I forgot the pill twice and now I'm pregnant, I can't have an abortion I think he would kill me. He loves me and a baby will bring us closer together.

Ok so that's a vulnerable woman, no positive role models, no support network, a low expectation of how she should be treated, no career prospects. All she has and all she knows is her partner. She's not in a position to be laying down terms and conditions. She's going to do it and hope for the best.

Not everyone has access to the right support or the ability to navigate life successfully.

Don't blame women for men's failings

People don't like to hear it but YANBU OP.

Even stranger when they go on to have more kids with a man who will never marry them.

Should there be cohabitation laws - yes of course...

YABU for that.

You can't make a guy marry you.

Yes I know IABU for that ! Because where is the cut off ? But then again .. perhaps the cut off is when you have a child with someone. ? After all .. men have an ability to control fertility.. it's called a condom ... and used appropriately it works well !

I know where you’re coming from op, but if you had told me that when I was first pregnant? I would have thought - that shit only happens to other people. It was becoming a mother that made me aware of how deeply ingrained misogyny still is in our society. As a privileged middle class woman, I had never experienced structural discrimination before I tried to have a career and a child, watched the gender pay gap play out amongst my peers, felt the family pressures to take on more and more caring roles, etc etc

mumsnet is famous for politicising women because for many of us (particularly the typical mumsnet demographic which seems - at least historically - quite middle class) motherhood is the first time that class consciousness becomes a lived experience/ necessity as opposed to an idea.

in fact my partner is wonderful, we are now married, and we live the heteronormative set up of him being the main bread winner and me doing the majority of care. But before dc I was the main breadwinner, I would have considered our lives relatively bohemian/ alternative, and had absolutely no desire to live a heteronormative stereotype. Weirdly, I insisted we get married to protect his financial interests, and it was only afterwards that we drifted further and further into the gender norms we occupy now.

@ChinaVase

Thank you for such a considered post . A lot to take on board

I have been with my partner who is 10 years younger, for nine years. I’m 55 he is 45.. We are about to have a mortgage together and I’m doubting whether I want to do this because whenever we’ve talked about marriage it’s been me suggesting it he’s skipped around the subject and said yes we will, we will marry but it just hasn’t happened. I’ve had a pretty tough three years recovering from major spinal surgery and other health issues which has been a lot of pressure on both of us because I couldn’t walk for a year and a half.and was basically housebound . I’m a very loving kind person, as is he but he’s way less demonstrative due to family autistic traits. I’m now doubting whether I should be with him because he cannot commit to me. I mean we’ve been together nine years so I don’t really get why this is such a scary thing, although I am more dominant generally than him though not overpowering and he’s very easy-going.. It feels as though he’s constantly fobbing me off which is hard as I’ve loved and cared for him like no other man I’ve ever shared a life with . This is raw also because this has happened in a previous relationship where I left my ex and moved country so I didn’t go back to him when he wouldn’t commit ! Reoccurring theme I know ! I’m feeling what is wrong with me and why does this happen to me that a man doesn’t think enough of me to take that next step . I’m no victim but I overwhelmingly feel my love and care is wasted on a man who us truly incapable of reciprocating this. Due to health issues I have felt over these years disempowered. I do not want to bludgeon someone into marriage if this will not work out or if he feels he will just agree to it to placate me . I’m someone that’s travelled the world as an ex nanny and have lived quite an independent life before him. We are in a small town which he has never ever ventured far from. But we are moving and getting a mortgage together.. I will not be originally on the mortgage because I haven’t been earning due to the aforementioned health issues though I’m about ready to start working again once we’ve moved though i can never lift again nor do a physical job. I know he loves me but he’s a person that doesn’t like upsetting anyone, and can be apathetic. Ive tried to gently question why he feels he cannot take that next step even though we’ve lived together for nine years. For me , the next natural logical step would be marriage instead of getting a house together but moving circumstances have meant we’ve had to look for a property because our landlord is selling.. I’m just full of doubts now because I’ve given so much in this relationship, I constantly support him -do all of the cooking, as I’m not working and he says I really am his strength and emotional support - but he cannot give this one thing that I need to feel important and loved . My outlook is pretty limiting due to my health though I’m incredibly proud and I don’t want to be with anyone that doesn’t really value me or love me. I want to take that next step otherwise I want to walk away . Advice would be great right now as I’m feeling incredibly low. I’ve given him an ultimatum and said I don’t want to move in the house together if he cannot make this commitment. Seems like the writing is on the wall because he keeps saying yes we will marry, I will ask you, you need to wait -what frigging decade do we live in! I’ve said if you really loved me this wouldn’t be a question. I don’t want a fuss nor a big white wedding and all that rigmarole but I do want someone that thinks enough of me to marry me at registry office with no doubts and someone who shows me he is willing to take that next step with me. . Maybe that says it all that he doesn’t want to do this and will never be ready as kind as he is and we are such good friends as well as partners . Advice please ? Non judgmental as my emotions aren’t great and feel as though I’m at a crossroad .

Any advice non judgmental would be much appreciated .

I agree with a lot of what you say but absolutely do not think there should be cohabitation laws. People should have the option to live together without tying finances. For example an older couple with their own adult children may wish to keep their estates separate. It is a shame to complicate cohabitation for them when there is already an easy option for those who do benefit from marriage/civil partnership.

i think you answered your own question over the course of this post- you can see that men have the upper hand, CSA is inadequate. This is on men.
Please think for just a minute, if it was as simple as just turning round and saying no I won’t have a baby with you unless you marry me then obviously we’d all do it. But realistically many relationships are on an unequal footing from the start. And even within marriage, probably more so financial abuse is common, so it’s not the be all and end all

Hi Scarlett

You need to start your own thread on the relationships board rather than post your situation on someone else’s thread. You’ll get a load of sensible replies from there.

But in terms of what this thread is about, this is the perfect example of how you get into the situation the OP is talking about. You believe a man when he tells you that he will marry you in the future and that you need to stop with the pressure because you’re obviously always going to be together, right? And before you know it, you’re ten years in and about to help him buy himself a house, while convincing yourself that it’s your mortgage too, and all the while, failing to realise that you’re little more than a lodger he has sex with and if he ended the relationship next week, you’d be homeless and have nothing to show for all the cash you contributed.

People aren’t perfect. They want to believe their partner when they say they’ll marry in the future. They want to trust the partner who says they’ll always be together.