To think smart phones are NOT always listening to us

[PumpkinSpiceMuffins]

Many people seem to think smart phones are always listening to us no matter what in order to use keywords we say for marketing purposes and to record our conversations for other data harvesting purposes. This likely is the case to some extent if you leave the default settings on with things like Siri. But I think when you change the settings as much as possible to respect your privacy and disable all microphone access, then that works to stop it. My DH and friends insist big tech companies are still recording you no matter what. AIBU to think that’s not the case? It would be such a massive scandal if it turned out Google or Apple were lying about these practices and surely there would be some sort of whistleblower who would leak it to the press. What do you think?

I know what you are saying but I have all my settings tight and I still get ads on stuff that I have been thinking about.

Things that you’ve only discussed orally? Scary. Anyone else in this situation?

I’ve tried to get a particular topic to show up in ads by talking into my phone about it (with the proper restrictions in settings) and it hasn’t happened for me.

Some of it is just confirmation bias. We ignore adverts that aren't relevant to us. I probably wouldn't notice scrolling past a carpet ad for example nine times out of ten, but if I had been thinking about getting a new carpet and it appeared then I would notice it. So then it becomes a 'weird thing' when in reality you might have scrolled past it numerous times in the past without taking note of it.

I've only ever seen targeted ads when I have searched for something online, as you would expect. I've never had anything appear that I believe is from just speaking to someone about a topic, just a few examples of the above, where an advert suddenly has relevance for me when it didn't before (then if you click on it you just get lots more).

It's like when you learn a new word and suddenly it seems to be everywhere. It was always there, you just didn't notice it.

I think they probably do, we aren't talking the most ethical of companies are we?

It's not just phones though, most of my neighbours have ring doorbells and set them to record everything in the street so you can't have a private conversation walking down along the pavement anymore either.

Yes - had my phone on a table untouched in a work meeting and boss was talking about a specific product I’ve never heard of or searched up before. Then that exact product started appearing in my Facebook feed.

Does everyone in your house have those settings turned off? Sometimes the algorithms will send the same suggestions to people living at the same address. For example if one person in your household is a Man City fan and watches football goals then the algorithm suggests the same to other members of the household because the odds that it’s a shared interest is higher.

If me & DP talk about something enough I do start getting ADs for said things. Usually starts happening around Xmas time when I start talking about things for the kids.

The other day I had an in depth conversation with my dog about snacks, the word snack was mentioned quite a few times. 2mins later I was on Instagram and there was an ad for Cadbury Snack bars. That to me was conclusive proof that my phone is listening to me but then agaib I talk to my dog so what do I know.

Everyone is sharing that they think their phones are listening to them, but they aren’t specifying whether they have microphone access restricted as much as possible in their settings. That’s the question in which I’m really interested.

I have no mic access.

If you use your phone to make a call, the mic would have to be on then, so you can't really escape that.

Do you think apple or google is recording phone calls?

I have no idea but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

Most people don't realise that voice software uses your speech to train itself - things like Alexa do store recordings unless you switch those options off.

Siri is disabled on my phone. Nevertheless, I can have a conversation with a friend about a topic I have never googled (eg dog toys - I don't have a dog but friend does) and shortly afterwards my social media advertising presents me loads of ads for dog toys.

I've done a decent amount of work on this both to satisfy my own curiosity and for work purposes.

I can't promise that they weren't listening in the past, but in the last 5 years or so, if you haven't granted an app microphone permissions, then it's not listening to you. It's coded in at the operating system level so almost impossible for app makers to work around, without resorting to particularly dodgy measures that'd be picked up by antivirus and there global community of nerdy privacy obsessed people very quickly.

Processing speech isn't a particularly simple task for a computer so it involves a fair bit of processing power, which would be visible either as local processing or power draw, or as internet usage for anything processed on the cloud. It's fairly easy to check whether the numbers go up when someone's talking or not.

A lot of the "Huh, I was talking about that and now it being advertised to me" is just very good statistical modelling coupled with big advertising networks and a healthy dose of confirmation bias. So Tesco's knows that 30% of white women in Wales with 2 kids (all of which they've worked out from your buying habits with a clubcard) buy this product 2 weeks after buying a different product. You're amazed at the fact that they've suddenly sent you a voucher for this product, but ignore the lack of coincidence for the other 4 vouchers for random crap you don't want.

Or Amazon know that a higher proportion of people than average paint their skirting boards in October. They also know via a tracking cookie that you bought wall paint from B&Q last week, so know you're a perfect candidate. The other million people who get shown skirting board paint don't even notice it, but you're now eyeing up your phone suspiciously.

And that's a simple example. Amazon might know you're a Married at First Sight fan because you went on the thread about it on Mumsnet and a tracking cookie caught it. It also knows you have Virgin Media, so knows what adverts you saw during it. You've forgotten about the advert for X perfume that was on that night, but it's sat in your subconcious and you tell your husband you'd like some for your birthday. Amazon also knows from your address details who your husband is, and also knows your birthday is coming up. Boom, let's send him some adverts for X perfume.

Computers find decoding human speech hard, but they find linking lots of tiny bits of data together to make a statistical model incredibly easy. So generally that's what happens.

I had the mic on my phone disabled after, despite having phone set on silent at work, my phone out of the blue chirped out " I'm sorry, I didn't catch that?" Right in the middle of a serious breaking bad news discussion with relatives. Totally out of order, I was mortified. Luckily the family at the time took it well and accepted my apology. Until then I thought being on silent mode would prevent it, but no, it still listens intermittently. So the mic is disabled, and now it has to ask permission- which I agree to just once, if the app function requires it at the time.
I get lots of irrelevant ads because I tend to not accept most cookies and tracking etc when asked. The ones that are relevant, I can see are connected to looking at certain pages - shopping etc. Can't say with it turned off there has been any ads just related to what I've said or thought. So I'm with you OP, I doubt with things switched off, it still listens. However, be mindful that if people have Google home or Alexa, these also listen in.

Geez, looking at the voting, there's a lot of paranoid people about. And yet, presumably if most think OP is BU, are they just accepting that phones listen? It's amazing what people let slide these days if so.

It definitely happens. We have set it up before ie talked about things we would never normally do. For us it was skiing holidays, fillers and cruises. Got ads for all three within 3 hrs 🤷🏻‍♀️

The examples that sound like eavesdropping are equally explainable by proximity of devices. The boss has been looking at a product online. His relationship with you - and even that your phones are close to each other- raises the possibility for the advertiser that you might also be interested, especially if the product is also something that matches your profile/field.

Our devices ‘eavesdrop’ all the time. They don’t need to do so through a microphone.

I’m more paranoid about the way Siri ignores me and always seems to be a bit huffy with me about something. Presumably she can’t be bothered attending to my needs because she’s too busy eavesdropping on you lot.

Great point. Is it the case that people think they are being lied to by big tech in this way and are still using their smart phones?

How else would they do it? Are you referring to keystroke recording? That would also be very worrisome. I know people like apps like what’s app because it’s end-to-end encrypted. But that privacy measure would be entirely thwarted if Apple was storing all of your keystrokes somewhere.

I agree those personal assistants are listening constantly. This thread was inspired by the recent thread on Alexa. The OP was defending having an Alexa in her home because it’s the same privacy invasion as smart phones. But I don’t think that’s correct as phones give privacy options that the personal assistants do not.