AIBU to expect freeholder to foot the bill?

[Hotpinkparade]

This is an odyssey of an issue that has been playing out for several years, so I will try and keep it brief!

I own a basement flat (leasehold). We have damp issues - visible damp coming through the walls in three rooms. We first reported this in 2020, the managing agent agreed that repairs were needed, and the freeholder (a group of flat owners who bought the freehold a decade or two ago, and run the freehold company) have dragged their feet until now. They have sent over a scope of works, and are planning to remove the plaster in the living room and spare bedroom, inject a damp proof course, etc etc etc.

They are suggesting we can continue to live in the flat for this time. Our bedroom, kitchen and bathroom would be unaffected by the works, so in theory this would be annoying but feasible. However, we have a lot of furniture in these two rooms (a bed, sofa, dining table, arm chairs, etc etc etc - all the stuff you normally have in a bedroom and living room). They have suggested the furniture could be moved in to other rooms during the works. There is no spare room in our bedroom or kitchen that could be filled with furniture and the rooms still be useable. Ideally, the freeholder would either pay for removals and storage while the work is carried out, or pay for us to live somewhere else for this period (estimated 3-4 weeks).

Does anyone know what the freeholders obligations are in this situation? I'm ideally looking for an official guideline or law that says - if the works are the responsibility of the freeholder, then they are also responsible for us in the time that our flat is not inhabitable. I have tried contacting the Leaseholder Advisory Service, but they have a long lead time before responding to queries and it's suggested that work begin in 3-4 weeks time.

Really appreciate any insight!

Freeholders are bricks and mortar you're interiors. If your interiors are damaged due to bricks and mortar issues you need to claim on your contents insurance.

You could contact https://www.lease-advice.org/ for advice.

That’s not what she asked. The “bricks and mortar” stuff is finally being repaired by them. The issue is that, if they cannot live there during repairs, who pays for their alternative accommodation or storage of their furniture?

She also explains that she has already contacted the advisory service.

What does your lease say?

They vary quite a lot. In my building pretty much all the responsibilities fall onto leaseholders (at least financially) but freeholder may have to do the organising.

I have answered it. The interiors are her responsibility, she could contact the organisation I have linked for advice though.

Can you not put some of your furniture into a storage facility while the work is being carried out?

It isn't the freeholders responsibility to rehouse you if the flat remains liveable during that time.

Thanks everyone for responses so far. The freeholder have taken responsibility for the issues as damp obviously comes from the outside of a building to the inside - as I understand it, the plaster belongs to me but the bricks belong to the freeholder, and so damp is their problem.

Money is very limited so while in an ideal world we would stick our stuff in storage and find somewhere else to live for a few weeks, we cannot afford to do this. Freeholder is suggesting that we a) put all our furniture in the unaffected rooms of our flat and b) continue to live in these rooms, which is not possible. So as I see it, they either need to pony up for storage, or we store the furniture in the unaffected rooms and move out. But what I need to understand is if the freeholder has any obligation to us in this situation, or if they can simply say no?

I'm not sure if there is a legal obligation but given the way they've dragged their feet, unless they have to, they're not going to. Even if it's morally the right thing to do. I'd be looking to move elsewhere, before they decide to hike your rent.

They have no responsibility other than to sort out the source of the damp. If you put stuff into storage and stay put it shouldn't cost you much. Some storage places offer the first month free.

OP is a leaseholder not a tenant.

Freeholds are a pain in the bum amd surely any additional costs incurred are only going to come back to you eventually through the leasehold. It sounds like they are acting in good faith, even if they have been a bit slow, so can you not work with them to help minimise the cost and not charge storage? Is there anyone in the block of flats that has a spare room they might be prepared to lend you for storage for a few weeks? My thought would be that if you act reasonably you are much more like to receive the same.

It sounds as if you must own a share of the freehold as it is unusual for one leaseholder to stay out of the purchase when the other leaseholders get together to buy the freehold, which is what you say has happened here. It does happen but is an oddity.
So 'the freeholder' is, by the sounds of it, you and your neighbours.
Bear in mind that even if you don't own part of the freehold, any cost of storage etc isn't realistically going to be covered by the freeholder but needs to be paid for or paid back via service charges.
It's not a tenancy where the landlord is responsible to everything.
So firstly you need to read your lease and see what is the responsibility of the leaseholder and the freeholder, secondly, if there is a sinking fund, and what that covers; but thirdly, having had some experience of neighbour disputes, I'd say that aside from the legal position, do think about how quickly relations with neighbours could disintegrate if you're pushing them to part-cover, via their service charge, your costs.

Whilst it is true that if The Freeholder pays that is essentially covered by the leaseholders management fees, it could be the difference between paying 100% of the cost or 20% (or less even depending on the size of the block) of the cost, so still a significant difference to the OP if the Freeholder pays.

In this case I'd probably rely on the definition of 'uninhabitable' as the threshold that insurers use to pay out on alternative accommodation. If you meet that criteria I'd say you have a reasonable argument to say that you should be moved out of the property AND your furniture from those rooms put into storage.

I'd be concerned about the proposed solution as well. Damp proof courses are very often not the answer. If you are in a basement is the outside ground level higher than your floor and touching the walls? Maybe a properly independent damp specialist should be used before any damp proof course is installed. These make interesting reading: https://www.heritageanddesign.co.uk/types-of-dampness/rising-damp/ and https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/damp-surveys-in-london/damp-survey-london.html

Just to clarify a couple of things that have come up - it is a large estate (60+ flats) so any cost for the works, and storage etc, will be shared amongst those 60 flats, not just come back to me. I definitely don't own share of freehold 😂A group of leaseholders (maybe 10 people? 20? I'm not sure) bought the freehold decades ago, whoever owned my flat at the time chose not to join in.

First of all, you need to go back to basics on the actual works, OP. How old is your property?

A damp proof injected course is NOT an appropriate treatment for damp. Converted basements (if it is converted which I'm assuming it is as purpose-built basement flats are rare) are very difficult to treat for damp and many of them have damp because they are cheaply and quickly converted by people who just want to make money out of them. Many people will also tank them to convert or to treat damp, which is also an inappropriate remedy.

Water ingress from the walls being against earth with no damp membrane is why converted basements are damp and that is not fixed by the above – it's made worse by the above. The basement should have been damp-proofed web converted with cavity drainage membranes or a barrier system – was it?

How long have you lived there? Have you always had damp? I fear your freeholders are taking the easy and uneducated option because they know nothing about damp and converted basements – as don't the companies selling injected damp proof courses.

Are you paying toward the works?

The cost of the works will be paid for from the service charges, so yes we are paying towards the works, albeit indirectly. We pay an extortionate amount (£6k+pa) and cover all sorts of costs - full time caretaker, gardeners, lift maintenance, etc etc etc. The cost of these works will be pretty insignificant as part of the annual budget.

I absolutely share your concerns. We have had so many visits from different surveyors and contractors - we have tried to talk to them each time to see what is recommended, but their reports are sent to the freeholder, not us, so I can't say I have a full idea. The property was built about a hundred years ago, and our flat was converted in the 1980s - previously it was service rooms of some sort. And yes, the ground level comes to the bottom of the windows in some rooms, so it's obvious what the issue is. The freeholder are obviously keen to minimise expenditure - they put out to tender a much more significant scope of works but have scaled back as they weren't willing to cover the cost of the quotes they got.

I must admit to feeling completely powerless in this situation. The freeholders refuse to communicate directly, so it all goes through managing agents who often don't respond for weeks or months. One of the managing agents (now moved on - high turnover as it's obviously a horrible job) said we could get our own survey done, but I have no idea where to start with this, especially as a previous poster shared a link suggesting that damp surveyors are crooks misdiagnosing issues in order to get work. There is also the issue of money - we could spend a few hundred quid on a survey, but couldn't stretch to the lawyer that would probably be needed to enforce the survey and get the freeholder to listen to us. I've really had enough of the whole thing (we've had many other issues with the freeholder, this is just the current one) but obviously we can't sell with plaster flaking off the walls, so we're stuck in the flat until the issues are resolved.

In your shoes I would get 3 quotes for removal and storage of the large item of furniture and send it to them.
A few photos of the unaffected rooms and the quotes with a "Please can you confirm by XX date" should get it moving along. If you have legal expenses on your contents insurance, they may be able to help you get a definitive answer

We are share of freehold (pretty much everyone apart from three flats bought in).

I am one of the directors.

We had a situation a bit like your where there was a burst pipe and there needed to be a lot work done to a flat. We paid for the replacement pipe and repalstering, obviously as it was freeholders responsibilty. The flat was liveable while the work was going but as a gesture of good will we offered to pay for reasonable out of pocket expenses incurred during the works.

Lesson learnt the hard way. We were sent a huge bill including mad stuff like portion of the telephone line rental for 5 days , gas standing charge, dry cleaning of pillow cases (!!), takeaways (even though the kitchen was not affected).

Freeholders should comply with responsibilites but also they are not a bottomless pit of money- the only money they have is money gathered from service charges.

It sounds like an absolute nightmare and I really feel for you. But please do not allow them to do this to your flat. You certainly won’t be and to sell it with dodgy remedial works that will not solve the issue. Have you seen a quote for the works? Damp injections are often very expensive, and no cheaper than the actual remedy – landlords and freeholders don’t choose them because they are cheap, they choose them because they are easy and because they are uneducated. Do you may make some headway in convincing them of a similar or lesser priced proper solution.

I can recommend Peter Ward:
https://www.heritage-survey.org

I can also recommend the following Facebook groups that are very, very helpful with damp remediation:

https://facebook.com/groups/343788003502193/

https://m.facebook.com/groups/143020647730378/

You could also get assistance from the Leasehold Association:
www.lease-assn.org

Unfortunately I think as freeholder it is your responsability to ensure work can be performefd (ie furniture is removed) even though they are responsible for the work itself.
Have you estimated the storage cost? I imagine it would be 100-300£ depending on the amount of time needed. Could some furniture be left in the middle of the room maybe in order to minimise the cost?

Having lived in a basement flat that needed tanking to make it habitable, this post is spot on. Damp injections will do absolutely nothing to solve the problem.

Thanks again everyone.

In answer to this post and @ThreeTescoBags - I have looked again at the scope of works just to clarify. It is suggested that the internal wall between two rooms has an injected DPC, followed by a salt retardant render. The proposal for the external walls is to hack off the plaster and apply waterproofing slurry, a ‘non shrink mortar fillet’ to the join between wall and floor, and two coats of waterproof render. Does this sound any better?!