To be annoyed at leave I was told to take being unpaid?

[AngeloMysterioso]

I work a night job from home, and recently had an incident with one of my DC where I had to take them to A&E. I contacted my manager to let them know I’d be logging in a bit late, they said it was fine. Eventually got home and logged in about 1h 20m after my start time. Manager kept telling me not to worry about logging in, they’d already put me down as absent on dependant’s leave, I must be knackered, go to bed etc etc. I ended up doing about an hour sorting through some IT stuff so I wouldn’t have to do it at the start of my next shift, and then logged off. But I would have been more than willing to complete the rest of my shift had my manager not repeatedly encouraged me to take the rest of the night off.

Now I’ve just been told that dependant’s leave is unpaid so I’m going to lose a night’s worth of wages (manager was apparently previously unaware of this). Manager is suggesting I put it down as annual leave instead or work an extra shift so I don’t lose pay. I’m annoyed because I would have continued and finished my shift, and now I either have to lose some annual leave or do an extra shift on my night off to make up for the lost wages.

Well naturally that's annoying OP, but did you actually ask your manager if you would be paid, or did you just assume? Anyway, in the end, you chose to take the time off, which presumably made that night easier for you, so I'd just do an extra shift to make up, rather than losing annual leave, but obviously it's up to you.

No, YANBU to feel annoyed in these circumstances. As you say, you work from home and in the end had arrived home just over an hour after your start time. I’m presuming the manager was aware of when you arrived home? It sounds like you were keeping them in the loop.

This scenario would have been an ideal for where “dependant’s leave” should have done its job i.e. only covered the time you reasonably needed to be away from work to make arrangements for the care of/provide assistance to your DC. Too often dependant’s leave is used to cover the whole shift/shifts in my experience when it doesn’t need to.

Your manager should have asked how you felt about doing some work and let you make the choice, especially as you work from home and do a night job.
It sounds as though the unexpected situation requiring you to take your DC to A&E had stabilised, therefore dependant’s leave shouldn’t apply from when you arrived home and your DC no longer required your immediate attention.
The fact you logged on for an hour to do IT emphasises this point.

I get why your manager insisted to not log on. However, they’ve been a bit hasty.
I’m an HR adviser for my sins and have encountered similar situations so many times and it’s usually when managers get fed up with employees who have had lots of time off for “childcare’ related issues that I get asked for help. I often find it’s the managers who have ended up letting employees have lots of time off when if they’d just asked the employee there might have been scope for the employee to come in later/shift swap/make the time back etc.

I always say to managers you’re better off giving your employees the information and let them make their own decision in a case like this.

EDIT: Wouldn’t be surprised if the manager would have had access to self-help info about whether the leave would be unpaid/paid and didn’t check. At one of my last workplaces we had flowcharts/tables/“idiot’s guides” for managers on things like this and so many still didn’t bother to read them before asking HR! 🙄
Managers in the main love to say, “HR says…”

I’ve never had dependant’s leave before so it didn’t occur to me to ask if it was paid or unpaid.

I did register when I logged on and off on our company messaging platform so there is a record of my being online- and have just done a delayed logging in request in our HR portal. Will see if that makes a difference. I’m looking back at the messages my manager sent me and they literally kept saying I think you should take the rest of the night off, you must be exhausted, we’re quiet anyway and you can get caught up on your next shift. Go and get some rest etc etc. And I was knackered so I did as I was told, but if I’d known it was unpaid I’d have just powered through. As it is I either lose the money, I lose the annual leave (I’ve barely got any left as it is this will basically use it all up) or I lose my one night off during the week which I really need to get a decent night’s sleep so I’m not completely wiped out by the weekend.

I feel for you op but dependant’s leave is normally unpaid ime. The job I have atm makes you take unpaid/annual leave for your own dr’s/dentist or hospital apps. We are also on minimum wage. I hope that Labour improve working conditions for us all.

It's okay saying they only cover a small part of the shift but it's usually harder to get part of a person's shift covered than getting a full shift covered.

Of course it's unpaid! In what world do you think that you can have an whole shift off paid that isn't annual leave?
Also you chose to log off without first checking - this is on you.

It’s pretty normal to use annual leave for your private appointments. Labour aren’t changing that. If they make up a new pays medical leave then everyone will schedule appointments during work hours and those appointments would always “run late” over a nice long lunch.

Any leave I take - not that I take much - I always offer to take unpaid (emergency appts etc). I find it’s just easier & I don’t owe work anything by doing it this way. This way they can get someone in to cover if needs be though we usually cover for each other as no official cover is provided in our dept.

I've never worked in a place where I was required to do that. My current HR requests that you schedule for the start or end of the day to minimise disruption.

Wrong thread?

Spam

It’s normal practise for this to be unpaid. They will have needed to get someone to cover your shift, so they won’t want to pay twice. I’d just work another shift to get my money back square again.

Wow, I guess that world is "Australia"... We have Carer's Leave. It is paid, and classed as separate from Sick Leave, as it's not the worker who is sick.
In other news, we now also have access to Reproductive leave, 10 days per annum. We can use that for loads of items, eg Breast screening, HRT appts, IVF etc.

Your manager is responsible for knowing the policy and shouldn’t be surprised dependant leave is unpaid. They should’ve made that clear to you. If they need training with HR they should seek it.
However you also have a duty to ask if it is paid or unpaid time off if it is important to you, which you didn’t.

I must say, in this scenario, for a good worker I’d have told you to log off, sleep and not worried about it. However it sounds like your IT is all tracked so possibly a little harder to be that flexible.

They literally told you it was down as dependents leave, which is unpaid.

If you didn’t know this then that’s unfortunate. I think they were trying to be helpful.

Next time you’ll know.

All right
It’s up to a manager to know how different kinds of leave work and to make sure you’re aware. Especially if they’re pushing you to take the leave.

It’s not that often you get to schedule your own medical appointments, IME anyway.

YANBU. I made a mistake over paid/unpaid leave with someone I line manage. I spoke to HR and they agreed to pay them because I had implied they would be paid. I took the flack because I’m the manager, that’s my job.

I’ve never heard of dependent’s leave. It might not occur to me to expect to be paid, because my last job was for a small indie coffee shop and now I’m self employed- but previously I was a teacher and it wouldn’t occur to me in that job that it might not be paid.
IMO this should have been clarified by the manager, and knowing the facts and sharing them with the employee should be part of the extra responsibilities the manager is being paid for. It’s not for the manager to decide the employee can afford a whole shift unpaid and with that amount of pushing to take the time off, it does give the impression that the time will be paid.

It is up to the employee to realise they won't be paid for it

We in England have carer’s leave (a week), dependant’s leave (as much reasonable time as necessary) and is separate to sick leave or annual leave as well as a variety of other types of leave. However, the law only states we get the leave, not that it is paid but most decent employers have a package above and beyond the minimum so it often is paid.

And as far as medical emergencies go, there are lots of jobs where in those circumstances (short term, medical emergency) they would pay you. So it’s not surprising given OP’s manager’s comments she thought that would be the case.

It is irritating. However it’s difficult for managers too. It’s very easy for I need to take my child to A&E and will be late to turn into I can’t work. So they plan accordingly. Not the same thing but primary school here is on strike for the next two weeks, possibly, they will confirm day by day. This is a nightmare for my manager. I know she doesn’t want to screw me over as I need annual leave to cover the holidays but work is time sensitive and needs allocating.

Sounds like 1 hour and 20 minutes of unpaid parental leave, after which you returned to work. If they want to count the time after you logged off an hour later, it would be sick leave because it was for you. Would it then be paid? All very petty - they should just show goodwill, ask you to make sure you are on top of your work and pay you as normal.

In a decent world?