To think this is unfair of my employer? Or am I being entitled?

[Butamii]

I work as an accountant, I have been in this role for 7 years. Recently published newly qualified accountant rates for our company are 60k. I am paid 61,500.

I have been back from mat leave six months and I raised the pay issue when I learned that we had a newly qualified accountant join our team on this basis, ie he is paid 60k. He has zero experience as he hasn’t ever practised before. I have not specifically mentioned him (yet) but it prompted me to ask about pay.

i have been told that pay is about various things and that I have flexibility in my role that also is a valuable thing to have. I have to leave early for pick up for my child for example. They are very flexible. For clarity they weren’t saying I am not paid more because I have flexibility but they were saying that I need to consider the whole package the company offers and that pay is also linked to expectations being met. I said I have never ever been told I’m not meeting expectations either before or after maternity leave. At this point they said it had taken me a while to get back up to speed after Mat leave… this was the first I have heard of that as I have had good feedback since being back.

anyway they have said they will ‘feed back’ my concerns to the top. For me this isn’t sufficient and I am now on the cusp of actually calling out this hire in our team and explicitly stating that they are paying a (male) member of staff almost the same as me when I have never been told I am not meeting expectations before and I am much more qualified.

Am I being entitled here? I guess they can do what they want really and I don’t know for sure what others are paid at my level but I suspect I am in the lower end as I am not sure many people would put up with this? I am not able to know other salaries, I only know the new starter as it’s published on the website.

Confused about the collecting your child thing.

Are you saying you leave on time, to collect them from daycare on time? Had years of this so if so I get it, but it’s not flexibility.

Or are you saying you regularly leave before your scheduled finish time, collect your kid and take them home? Based on a formal flexibility request in place?

Or are there occasions when your regular pick up person lets you down last minute, so you need one offs - technically akin to dependants leave, which is allowed for you to make arrangements in unexpected urgent situations?

If you leave officially early, are you making the time up?

And if everyone in the team is doing it - who’s left holding the office baby, matey new bloke on the 60k?

This! Absolutely this!

Job hopping has increased my salary by 36% in the last 2 years. It's really sad that loyalty isn't rewarded. Long term staff are usually always shafted.

Have they just published this particular individuals wage (which would be weird) or have they published that all new starters will begin on this?

I'd not make it personal to the new hire as this is spiteful tbh, but focus on your worth and negotiating a fairer wage for you. It's not unusual for new starters to get paid more to entice them in, I'd concentrate on focusing in on the rest of the market.

Find another job and see if they then offer you a rise. They may just say ‘congratulations, bye’ of course.

Just a word of caution: the job market is pretty tough at the moment, according to a few friends who have been looking. So IIWY I'd keep my powder dry, apply for other jobs, negotiate more money elsewhere and the same or improved flexibility in a new job, then leave. It's much easier to get a new job when you're already in a job.

Everyone who says raise a grievance etc isn't living in the real world and IMO this isn't likely to end up getting the result you want, it'll just piss people off.

I agree it's rubbish that a newly qual is getting £1.5k less than you, it's not their fault though, as many others have said so leave them personally out of it.

And it is not ok if suddenly a performance issue that has never been mentioned before is raised when you raise a pay query. Or if your flexible arrangements are conflated with the pay (assuming you work the same hours as everyone else).

In your position I'd get another offer then decide whether to accept a counter offer from your existing employer or jump. Good luck.

Do those who go pick up etc make up the time?

Sounds like out-and-out sexism to me. And they're now taking the piss because they think you'll put up with it as the job fits around childcare commitments.

It seems like that to me, too. I've seen it happen a lot over the years, in different sectors.

To answer a few questions… my hourly rate is around 180 more but my target is obviously higher.

Those saying ‘don’t bring the new hire into it…’ I’m not! I’m not saying he shouldn’t be paid his salary at all. I simply think it’s absurd to expect me to be ok with the fact he has zero experience and is paid the same as me.

A weird comment was made in a recent review meeting which was ‘when you have the next you’ll find it all easier in a weird way!’ …. I’m not able to have more dc but they are not aware of this. I wonder if they think I’m just about to go off again on Mat leave. No comment about me meeting expectations has ever been raised before, until literally after I mentioned this. They said I should look at certain things to get promoted then pay would change but I’m already two titles above this new starter!

So if your charge out rate is £180 more an hour, you must be like a senior manager and the new starter is senior associate level? And you’re paid the same??

If he’s a qualified CA he has to have done his 3 years or whatever so he just have some experience surely.

That’s a bullshit answer from them designed to get you to shut up.

You should ask for a formal pay review and bring examples from other companies and that new recruits are being paid minimally under you. If anything, being able to meet your expectations while working flexibly is a sign of your higher value. Don’t allow them to equate flexibility with pay. Flexibility is a company policy, of which new recruits are also afforded if needed. Pay is your value as an employee.

Sorry more to add, if the above ^ is correct and he’s a senior associate on £60k, the problem is that he’s being wildly overpaid rather than you being underpaid.

I would ask your employer for their salary ranges per grade and from there a salary increase.

It doesn’t hurt to put your feelers out, apply for jobs and do some interviews just to see what else is out there. 7 years is a long time to be in a job these days and there’s no reward for loyalty.

I’m in the public sector and we’re all paid the same whether we have 25 years experience or 2. The only difference is that the parents get carte blanche to pick their kids up and not make up the hours, whereas the rest of us have to make time up for medical appointments etc. So technically if you’re a parent, you’re paid more (fewer hours) than if you’re not.

If you can get better elsewhere then go for it?

I am in a similar position OP.

A new hire on the same level as me recently started on £5k more than me but is not the de facto deputy when our manager is away.

I made an official complaint and as a consequence my dept is on the cusp of a reorg with hopefully a pay rise for me and a more senior role.

But I had to go scorched earth and threaten union involvement to get any resolution. Funnily enough I've just been head hunted with the role £13k more than I'm on now so I know I'm being underpaid.

Unfortunately this seems very common now.

Time to move. Sitting still doesn't get you anywhere.

This is why so many employers try not to publish salary on their job ads. It’s really common for new hires to be paid the same or more than existing employees. They won’t want to pay existing staff more unless they kick up a fuss, they want to keep their payroll bill as low as possible. If everyone has the flexibility benefit, you’re not benefiting any more than anyone else so that’s disingenuous.

More often than not, if you want a raise you have to move. I was in the same org for 10 years, but have moved every 2-3 years over the last 10 and my salary has more than doubled.

Not seeking to derail the thread but can I check...

Is this London?

I'm SE (Sussex/Kent border), on my final ACCA exam in December and on £30k at the moment wondering what a reasonable uplift might look like to negotiate/ up sticks for new position. I'm seeing anything between £35k-£50k on LinkedIn ads sent to me and worried about looking like a delusional twerp if I want to explore the higher end roles.
Management accountant / finance business partnering in industry rather than practice.

Thanks x

You have no future at this company.

Get your CV done and get interviewing.
Dont mention flexibility or children at all.

Once you have a formal offer and contract ask for the flex you need to be added to the contract.

What has been your career / salary progression to date?

Is the new hire more visible than you? Is he in the office early and leaving late?

You haven’t explained what the flexibility looks like. It looks like they have you pegged as on the mummy track and although they shouldn’t have mentioned the possibility of having a second baby, it was an opportunity for you shut this thinking down by telling them your family is complete and you are keen to take the next step up in your career.

Time to polish up your CV, get a job offer and leave or use it to negotiate. I think the differential in charging rates should be valuable evidence.

As mentioned upthread, if you were a Civil Servant there is no financial recognition / reward for experience as increments were abolished ages ago. The only way to get a pay increase is by being promoted or moving to the higher paying departments.

I am promoting a direct report and my director and HR are pushing me to lowball her on the offer. The only reason is her starting salary was low, so any increase will be based on that, irrelevant of her performance.

I'm fuming, she is brilliant, I have been trying to raise her salary with the annual raise process but it's small that she is still at the bottom of her band 5 years later.
Our director said "I would be delighted with a 10% increase and additional benefits" (well yeah, based on his 6 figures salary, 10% sounds good!).

My recommendation to her, and you, is: if they won't budge, leave. Come back if you want to, it will save you 5-10 years.

@Butamii

You are 2 grades above new starter and you are only on 1.5k more? That's the real problem here.

I work in Accountancy recruitment and this is unheard of! I appreciate that base salaries may have increased since you qualified but you should have had 2 pay increases from promotions and the annual salaries by now. Do you know what others at your grade are on? That's what you really need to know as it's comparing like for like.

DS is an accountant, 5 years qualified. Recently an accountant friend approached me to ask if I thought he was happy in the job as they were looking to employ someone new.Apparently , it was the third approach that week. There are plenty of jobs out there.

Sorry this simply isn't true. I am not sure where you got this incorrect information from.

Similar happened to DH. He started shopping around and was offered the same job at a different company for higher salary so his current company matched the new offer to keep him. It depends on how much they value your experience OP and how far you're willing to rock the boat and potentially leave for the extra money. It's not fair though.

Where is he based as that is not what I’m seeing quite the opposite … the job market is tough lots of people looking , toughest market in a very long time most recruiters are saying the same ..

@Mumofnetters are you London based? £120k seems v high for 7 years PQE unless am totally out of touch …