DWP Work Coaches to go into MH wards

[Rinoachicken]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98y09n8201o

so when you are at you absolute lowest and most unwell (which they are if they are an inpatient as bed are so scare), possibly lacking capacity, lacking cognisance function to understand and retain information, suicidal, psychotic - some tick box Jo, who’s only knowledge of mental health was a half day online course a couple of weeks ago, is going to come along and chat about your CV?!

If you are wanting to support people who are mentally unwell back into work, those acutely unwell in a hospital setting wouldn’t be my first priority - I’d be trying to increase the support AFTER discharge once stable, to those in the community and at primary care level first surely??!!

The DWP should have NO PLACE on a mental health ward imho - where the ONLY considerations and objectives should be stabilising people’s mental health.

Do they have any idea how ill you have to be to get a place in a ward? Honestly.

You lose your PIP if you’re in there over 28 days. I think that is apalling too as many rely on PIP just to help cover rent/bills.

nobody is going ti be forced to see them.

No, but they can be easily coerced into seeing them.

Having read a few articles about this I think this could be really helpful. So many people they get caught in a cycle of returning to hospital. Often they have little structure and routine which is so important to keep many people well.

Having purpose, having structure and achievable goals tailored to induvial needs is a positive move forward. Far to often patients leave hospital and have so little support or focus on their future.

This isn't about working with people who are acutely unwell. Many people with serious MH conditions can work, it has to be work that is suitable, hours that are suitable with levels of interaction and hours that they can manage. With the right support this is a really positive move forward

It sounds utterly bonkers, but I assume they mean as an opt in support for people who have been treated and are preparing to be discharged. I imagine that's quite a scary moment. You feel better but what happens next for you, how will you manage, what support is there. Someone saying look here's how to fill out forms, cv etc, what to say when they ask about your 6 weeks in psychiatric care.

My brother has been admitted onto a psych ward once and this might have helped. He runs his own business now.

Job coaches are not therapeutic interventions in any sense of the word.

All the studies used to show that work is good for mental health really show a simple correlation between those that work tend to have better mental health than those who are out of work.

Politicians have weaponised this simple correlation that (duh) healthy people are more likely to work than the unwell into a cause and effect relationship of work makes you healthy that has been disproven time again. It started with the Victorian work cure and this is just the same old bad idea in modern packaging.

This government insist that anyone with any sort of mental health or pain situation will be better working. They have made it clear that they want to slash the numbers/cost of those on sickness/disability payments.

So, this is the sort of thing they will do.

The thing is that hospital is for when you are acutely unwell, you are not discharged as cured and ready to work. The treatment is to discharge you when you are stable enough to be treated under community health care or a crisis team. Hardly anyone is well enough to return to or seek work at the point they are discharged from a psychiatric ward or hospital.

Job coaches are good, but they should be outside the hospital setting when the patient is not only stable but well on the road to recovery.

This is disgusting. The attack on the poor and disabled here has gotten ridiculous. It is clearly our fault that the country is shit.

I have been inpatient many times. There were people there that had been on a section for years. What the fuck are they going to put on a CV? And who is going to employ them?

A PP was right, it is employers that need to change their attitudes to people with disabilities, but instead the people with disabilities are being told they are not trying hard enough. If you are disabled, have a gap on your CV, a criminal record (not unusual for people with MH issues), or are above 40 - no one wants to hire you anyway. The finger is being pointed at the wrong people.

I used to do exactly that as part of my job! Sometimes, clients were so unwell they really didn't have capacity to take on board what was being suggested.

Now, most of my referrals are from an NHS-funded specialist service that adopts a therapeutic approach to employment. They only work with clients who feel ready to think about getting back to work and whose MH team believe they are ready to take that step. And they're well enough to be living independently, not in-patients!

Kendall would probably achieve more by expanding such services.

I hoped a Labour government might change some of this bullsh*t. Clearly not, and they are proving themselves Conservatives in Red. I'll never vote for them again.

DWP and work coaches are seen as bad but they are just normal people working a job and being controlled by the governments stupid rules. I’m sure they wouldn’t want to go either.

"The results of getting people into work have been dramatic, and the evidence clearly shows that it is better for their mental health," she said.

A lot of people I know hate their jobs, are very stressed and unhappy as a result, and put up with a lot of unbelievable shit from their employers.

Just loving our wonderful new government!

The evidence showing work is better for people’s mental health. I’m sure for some people it is. But for many people it’s absolutely not true.

My DB has had mental health problems for the best part of 40 years. The only way he can kept relatively stable is by having his anti-psychotic medication administered by depot injection every 4 weeks.

For the first 7-10 days after his injection, he's like a total zombie: slurred speech, very poor short term memory, can't complete sequential tasks etc. Then he has around 10 days or so of being fairly functional before he starts to become hyper and delusional again.

I can't see how work would help him, or what employer would tolerate an employee who's only fit for work around a third of the time.

Entirely unacceptable
Outrageous that it's even suggested

Nobody is suggesting that the NHS will only be for those able to work.

No, but I'm really wary of this link the government are making between the NHS and jobs. I really don't think we're as far off as all that from suggesting those with no work prospects should go to the back of the waiting list.

Cant vote as have mixed feelings. There are people who would be triggered by this so it is not for everybody. But for people whose work situation is a source of stress, I can see that this may feel helpful. Needs to be looked at on a case by case basis and led by patient needs and wants.

Having worked in MH for 25 years, I have to say I see the whole spectrum. From people making themselves more ill by trying to find or stay at work, to people who only come to therapy so they can claim benefits because they are gaming the system. I will support the former to the max. The second lot? There are too many of them.

This would be pure stupidity.

If someone is unwell enough to need care in a mental health ward they are in not in a mental or physical state where they can realistically discuss employment with anyone...the additional pressure would likely affect them negatively and impact their recovery.

Also, people in mental health ward have a right to privacy like any other patient and not to want some idiot from the DWP, who is not a healthcare professional, to force themselves into their room or cubicle and see them at their lowest.

I have ran employability projects (for charities, not the DWP) for people with mental health issues and other complex needs. There are a lot of difficulties when it comes to helping them get back in the workplace, even when they are feeling well enough to work or volunteer. Some have large gaps in their CVs, long period of sick leaves (which puts off employers) and they can often only cope with part-time, flexible work. We used to focus on helping them develop their self confidence and start with volunteering first to ease themselves back into a routine and so they could get recent references. Or we would try to help them do courses to retrain to be more employable. It is not easy and it takes time.

I have also worked with people with severe mental health issues who also had criminal convictions and those are incredibly hard to try to get back into the workplace.

Basically the DWP just showing up and threatening vulnerable people in a ward would achieve sod all anyway...

I worked in psychiatric hospitals for a decade. I dont think it is a terrible idea, if done properly and carefully. There you go.

Your last paragraph - exactly! When there are more people on JSA than there are jobs available,where are all the jobs for people coming off sickness benefits (who have rightly or wrongly been deemed fit to work)? If you have numerous fit,healthy people with no gaps in their employment history,all applying for one job,what chance does someone who's disabled or sick have?! Prospective employers are spoilt for choice. Does the government think that an employer is really going to choose someone who may have been out of work for 10 years due to ill health,and may still have ongoing health problems,over someone who has none of these issues? I don't think so.

@HRTQueen you are right - structure, routine and purpose all help recovery. But what this announcement shows is a stunning lack of understanding of how unwell people are in hospital. I am a MH nurse with too many years experience to count (40 +) and sometimes I feel I've seen it all. The bed pressures in psychiatry are now so acute that people are discharged at the earliest opportunity to the care of Crisis Teams to continue their treatment in the community. The majority of in patients are floridly unwell and mostly detained under the mental health act. Most Community Mental Health Teams already employ job coaches or employment specialists, and yes, we could do with more but fundamentally the barriers to work for people with mental health issues are really complex (I did my Masters dissertation on it so read A LOT of the research for my literature review before doing my own study).

Family member who has episodes of v poor MH and some physical issues does work but was told by off by community MH Service for Not attending appts and not being available because they were working. It was suggested to them that they stop working and instead concentrate on the chaotically offered support that was often cancelled or couldn’t be arranged around working hours ie telephone appointments at lunchtimes. But when they were signing on, the work coach pushed them and didn’t accept that appointments and illness was sufficient for them
missing appointments at job centre. Often it seems that being ill is a full time job. If my relative got consistent and sympathetic MH support to manage their conditions then they’d not be in the forever revolving door between illness and work

I do understand the pressure at present and how unwell people have to be to be on many wards and

there are other areas where specialist teams (some could be on wards forensic for example, work with people who are waiting for placement to become available) , medium support services could really help as at present the support is often so disjointed and too often falls on the shoulders of community nurses to reach out to various teams to get support then hours of completing referral forms, chasing teams, making sure appointments are kept

specialist teams that have training, understand the complexities, this is vital as many teams are put together and they have so little understanding of the challenges for people and if possible to start the work before people are discharged

of course we need more money for mh services across the board but we also need to really help those that are stuck in a cycle of returning to hospital over and over again

This just makes me feel angry tbh. Do they have any idea how sick people on MH wards are? You don't go there for mild depression or anxiety.

It just seems like it'll be another way to kick people when they're down.

When? And do you really think the group of people you describe as just attending therapy in order to keep benefits are being sectioned and admitted to hospital? If so, all I can say is that the mental health professionals involved in the sectioning process are not taking their legal responsibilities seriously.