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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the injections for weight reduction should be offered to the unemployed?

137 replies

llizzie · 15/10/2024 20:01

The Government has just announced the intention of offering weight reducing injections to those unemployed who are obese?

AIBU to think it might backfire and cause more problems?

OP posts:
cardibach · 15/10/2024 22:23

llizzie · 15/10/2024 22:22

I think you are right. It will not work because no one has studied the connection with obesity and unemployment.

No spur of the moment suggestion can hold water. If it was presented later, when research can prove the connection, then it had a chance of working.

The. Study. Will. Look. At. This.
That’s part of it.
As you’ve been told repeatedly.
Why keep on as though you don’t know?

SilenceInside · 15/10/2024 22:24

@llizzie Jfc. People have explained to you that this story is about an actual research project! One of the outcomes they will look at will be whether losing weight has any impact on gaining employment. What you are asking for is literally what will be happening.

johnson39 · 15/10/2024 22:25

@silenceinside
Ah no far too much dignity to rely on benefits unnecessarily when I can work, they are or should be for people who genuinely can't work, illness etc , I'm good thanks and like to pay my own way.

ichundich · 15/10/2024 22:25

The question I'd like to ask is what will happen if people refuse them? Will they have their benefits slashed? There are side-effects to weight-loss injections too; would it therefore be ethical for the state to encourage people to take them when there are alternatives?

llizzie · 15/10/2024 22:25

cardibach · 15/10/2024 22:20

You’ve been told several times that it’s not an announcement and not. Policy, but that it’s a privately funded research study, one part of which will be to look at the impact of weight loss on ability to work. That’s all. Streeting just commented that if it shows that it makes people healthier and fitter that could take some burden of the NHS and get people off benefits.

Everybody else getting worked up about it needs to read the many posts that have pointed this out too.

Edited

Then it should never have been announced at all, and especially not now, when people are so worried about the budget. Overweight unemployed people will worry now that they may lose their benefit if they don't take the drug.

He doesn't actually say that, does he, but he has said life will get harder and he will cut down the unemployment benefit cost.

OP posts:
Paperdolly · 15/10/2024 22:30

Flidina · 15/10/2024 21:02

Would like to know how they're going to provide these weightloss injections, given there's a shortage, and even diabetics are struggling to access them.

Totally fuming with regard to diabetics not being able to get hold of any of these meds at the moment!! Where is this latest supply going to manifest itself from?

SilenceInside · 15/10/2024 22:31

Nothing was announced, @llizzie, no govt policy was committed to. It was a possibility that was being tangentially discussed.

No one will be forced to participate in a privately funded research project, no one is going to worry that their benefits will be cut if they don't participate in this research.

Mamai100 · 15/10/2024 22:31

llizzie · 15/10/2024 21:44

My reservations are whether an employer should be told the applicant was having the injections, and that if an unemployed person agrees to have the drug, and gets a job, then puts the weight back on, will the employer be able to sack them?

Would the person be forced to sign a 'disclaimer' against the injections making them ill? How would that work?

Will it put a further burden on the GP?

Should it be free, or at a reduced rate?

Am I right to have these concerns?

Fat unemployed people aren't without feelings and self respect you know.

We need to treat people like human beings. This would be incredibly humiliating for anyone.

llizzie · 15/10/2024 22:32

SilenceInside · 15/10/2024 21:52

There isn't a shortage of Mounjaro, and there is no current shortage of Wegovy, both of which are for weight loss not for diabetes.

The govt aren't going to be handing out weight loss injections, it was an opinion piece by one MP about possibilities. What is happening is a privately funded trial of weight loss injections, in Manchester, where one of the outcomes that will be looked at is whether losing weight helps people with finding employment amongst other outcomes. Journalists have taken those two things and made a headline grabbing crappy article out of it.

Does the PM know it is only research? According to the BBC Starmer himself announced it.

A PM has no right to announce anything which is not a government discussion point. Private researches are announced all the time, but not by a Prime Minister, and not in connection with specific people, and not just when there is so much speculation going on, especially when he announced cutting down on unemployment.

When something is announced too soon, it will not work.

OP posts:
loulouljh · 15/10/2024 22:33

Nuts. and insulting. If you obese it doesn't mean you cannot work. These jabs have apparently potentially life threatening side effects. Proper eating and exercise surely a better route to lose weight.

SilenceInside · 15/10/2024 22:33

@Paperdolly direct from the manufacturer, who has no shortage of Mounjaro. It's nothing to do with supplies of semaglutide for diabetics via the NHS.

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 15/10/2024 22:35

Then it should never have been announced at all

What shouldn't have been announced? Have you read his article - the bit below is basically the only bit where he talks about unemployment in conjunction with weight loss drugs.
None of this is an announcement of any kind. It's not even particularly original.

The only "announcement" is a private research project into Mounjaro, and whether it improves people's employment - and even that doesn't just focus on unemployed people, but also looks at sick days as well, so must include employed people.

"Illness caused by obesity causes people to take an extra four sick days a year on average, while many others are forced out of work altogether. The long-term benefits of these drugs could be monumental in our approach to tackling obesity. For many people, these weight-loss jabs will be life-changing, help them get back to work, and ease the demands on our NHS.”

SilenceInside · 15/10/2024 22:36

"Does the PM know it is only research? According to the BBC Starmer himself announced it."

Which part of which BBC article makes you think that, @llizzie ?

llizzie · 15/10/2024 22:37

ChangeHasCome · 15/10/2024 20:27

Is your title correct?

[AIBU] To think the injections for weight reduction should be offered to the unemployed?

Then in your OP

AIBU to think it might backfire and cause more problems?

So which is it? Do you think it should be offered or do you think it shouldn't because it might backfire or do you think it should but it might backfire or did you miss a few letters in your title so that it was supposed to read "To think the injections for weight reduction shouldn't be offered to the unemployed?" instead?

Can't say whether you're BU or NBU if I don't know what you mean.

For me, I think anyone who's obese should get it (if they want it) until they get to a healthy weight.

Well it is splitting hairs a bit, but I think it will backfire because there is no evidence to show that given the drug, obese people will find a job.

OP posts:
Windchimesandsong · 15/10/2024 22:39

StarDolphins · 15/10/2024 22:01

I don’t even know anything about weight loss injections but surely this is about whether people actually want to work or not rather than being too overweight to work? I know plenty of overweight people working perfectly fine.

The main link between unemployment and obesity is that unemployment can cause obesity.

I've just posted about this on another thread.

The reasons why unemployment can cause obesity are:

a) Poverty means limited access to affordable healthy food and/or cooking or kitchen storage facilities.

b) Poverty can cause chronic stress - and chronic stress can cause obesity even without overeating or eating the "wrong" food. (I'll find the article I posted about this on another thread).

Separate from unemployment as in re people jobseeking (as opposed to being unable to work). Millions of people are on long NHS waiting lists. Because of delayed or misdiagnoses or delayed treatment, they're more unwell by the time they're accurately diagnosed and treated.

In the meantime many of those people waiting for good NHS care gain weight. Due to pain or limited mobility caused by their untreated health condition.

Returning to unemployment. A major problem isn't that people "don't want to work". It's that employers don't want to hire them. There's widespread employer discrimination against older, disabled - and career gap candidates. Also employers are less willing to do what they did in the past - train people on the job.

So although the weight loss drugs may be helpful for some people re obesity, they won't address "worklessness". Absolutely if it helps, they should be available to help obesity but there has to be a holistic approach - that addresses the causes (whether social/environmental or delayed NHS care).

Sort out the NHS and other public services, so there's timely access to good and holistic help.

Address poverty - with a supportive benefits system, improved child maintaince service, more council housing (bad of insecure housing harms health - at huge cost to the NHS and the wider economy), and job and training opportunities.

And address the employer problem.

llizzie · 15/10/2024 22:41

snowlady4 · 15/10/2024 20:47

Seems a bit mad with the shortage of weight loss injections we already have.. plus the cost to the nhs/drs time spent on the prescribing etc?- surely there are areas that would benefit more from the spending?
Plenty of people manage to work and be obese at the same time!- doesn't seem to make sense to me as a way to get people back to work, but what do I know? I would think making wages higher and unemployment benefits lower would be more effective!

It didn't make sense to me, either.

OP posts:
SilenceInside · 15/10/2024 22:42

That's because both you and the quoted poster have utterly misunderstood what was being talked about, @llizzie

Windchimesandsong · 15/10/2024 22:47

llizzie · 15/10/2024 22:37

Well it is splitting hairs a bit, but I think it will backfire because there is no evidence to show that given the drug, obese people will find a job.

I agree that treating obesity won't make employers hire people.

However that's no reason not to help people with obesity, and if the weight loss drugs help some people depending on individual circumstances then they could be part of that help.

As long as there's a holistic approach re help. Holistic both re obesity, and separately re "worklessness".

I've listed, in my post above, how to address obesity, and separately the problems of, a) employers not hiring unemployed people, and b) people being too unwell to work - due to lack of or delayed access to timely and appropriate NHS and other help.

llizzie · 15/10/2024 22:47

SilenceInside · 15/10/2024 22:06

@StarDolphins and @johnson39 don't worry, your taxes are safe. No money will be wasted on those dreadful fat people just yet. The govt isn't running this scheme, it's a privately funded research project run by a health science organisation and the manufacturers of the Mounjaro weight loss injection. No taxpayers money being spent on it at all.

Are you sure about that?
It will fail whatever the results of research are, because it was announced too quickly. It should never have been announced, and Starmer should never have given an interview to the BBC on it.

If he had waited until research was completed, it might have been acceptable, but this is another thing announced too fast and without thought.

OP posts:
PandoraSox · 15/10/2024 22:49

YABU @llizzie , because that is not what is happening. There is a LOT of misinformation being spread about this. The unemployed aren't suddenly going to be offered weight loss jabs, despite all the frothing that has gone on today on MN. I think this might be thread no. 5 or 6 that I have seen.

This is what is actually happening: there is going to be a five year study on the effectiveness of weight loss jabs and the potential impact of their use on health related quality of life and employment status and sick leave.

ETA: Other posters have tried to acquaint you with the facts, I see. But you are ignoring them.

The long version:

Health Innovation Manchester has today (14 October 2024) announced a groundbreaking strategic partnership with Eli Lilly and Company (Lilly) to initiate a five-year real-world evidence study (SURMOUNT-REAL UK), subject to relevant approvals.

The announcement has been made as part of a collaboration agreed between Lilly and UK Government today, unveiled at the Government’s International Investment Summit.

The study will evaluate the real-world effectiveness of tirzepatide in weight loss, diabetes prevention, and prevention of obesity-related complications for adults with obesity. The evidence generated will seek to increase the global evidence base on the long-term impacts of weight loss medicines and potentially inform the UK’s care pathway approach to the treatment of obesity.

Significantly, the five-year study will also aim to collect data on healthcare resource utilisation, health-related quality of life and changes in participants’ employment status and sick days from work.

https://healthinnovationmanchester.com/news/greater-manchester-plans-to-partner-with-industry-on-a-new-study-to-deepen-understanding-of-a-weight-loss-medication/

HTH

SilenceInside · 15/10/2024 22:50

I am certain of everything that I've posted. NOTHING has been announced by the PM or the govt. The PM and Wes Streeting were discussing the upcoming research project that is entirely privately funded. They weren't announcing any policy, or even any specific intention to take any specific action. They were simply discussing the ideas behind this research project.

llizzie · 15/10/2024 22:51

wrongthinker · 15/10/2024 22:09

You can't sack people for putting on weight.

That is why it would never work. Employers would not employ people on injections, because they would not be able to make them leave if they put the weight back on.
How can it reduce the unemployment numbers, which Starmer said would be the benefit?

OP posts:
Windchimesandsong · 15/10/2024 22:51

Someone posted suggesting making the already paltry unemployment benefits lower. Well that won't make employers end their age, disability, and career gap discrimination. Nor will it make employers returning to how things used to be - willing to hire someone and train them on the job.

It will, however, increase the issue of obesity. Because poverty, and the interlinked chronic stress due to poverty can cause obesity.

SilenceInside · 15/10/2024 22:53

It's like you've not actually read any of the BBC articles or any of the other reporting about this. Yet you're confident to discuss what you think or imagine it's all about. Mad.

PandoraSox · 15/10/2024 22:53

SilenceInside · 15/10/2024 22:50

I am certain of everything that I've posted. NOTHING has been announced by the PM or the govt. The PM and Wes Streeting were discussing the upcoming research project that is entirely privately funded. They weren't announcing any policy, or even any specific intention to take any specific action. They were simply discussing the ideas behind this research project.

Don't waste your time posting actual facts. OP will likely continue to invent their own version of events.

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