To let child get detention

[FuzzyYellowChicken]

Absolutely at the end of my tether today.
DD y8 hates school and is absolutely horrible in the morning (partly due to hating school, partly because she stays up until late messing around so probably only gets 5 hours sleep) She takes such a long time to get ready in a morning it’s actually unbelievable.

Ive tried waking her up earlier, she still takes just as long. She comes sauntering down the stairs at a ridiculously late time and doesn’t seem to be in any rush… it’s driving me MAD.

this morning she said “she can’t help how long it takes”

fuming.

I drove her to school so she wouldn’t be late, which I’m doing more and more lately (when I don’t have an early start at work anyway!!)

I did this because school have sent numerous angry sounding emails to parents that children NEED to be in school on time and parents MUST do their bit to ensure this happens. Its parents responsibility to ensure the child is on time etc etc…..Also If they’re late, even by a minute, they WILL get a detention.

If I didn’t bail her out and drive her in every time she runs late, she would have had about 15 detentions this term!!!

AIBU to just lay off and let her be late, and let her get detention just to teach her the importance of punctuality… and just forget about the angry emails making out that the parent is responsible. I won’t be able to drive her to school forever (going to increase work hours soon).

Actions have consequences- might be the prompt DD needs - don’t bail her out let her get the detention. At the moment you are enabling her to push the boundaries further as she knows you will bail her out by giving her a lift.

Might also be an idea to look at what the messing around is all about - is she on her phone / tablet ? - if so these should be taken off her at an set time by you, the parent, and given back in the morning. Set a rule no screens after xx.xx. If she has a TV in her room and is watching that - remove it

At the moment you are serving the equivalent of a detention every time you drive her to school because it’s ruining your morning routine / timing 🙂

Very true about me serving the detention! The traffic around school is horrendous too which doesn’t help!
All devices are taken out of her room at night and phone given back to her as she leaves the house in a morning so I have NO idea what she gets up to.

Why is she not sleeping? Is it possible she has another device? Is there a television in there or any.other form.of distraction? I would let her get.the detention

i think you need to address why she hates school so much.

what's going on? how can you improve things for her.

the lateness/length of time getting ready is a symptom of other things. maybe if you can tackle that, it might help her get ready quicker.

I would let her get detention. You've put everything in place to allow her to arrive at school on time. Maybe a consequence from the school will have more impact.

Let her take the punishment have a conversation first if she still messes about let her take the punishment if she skives off school tell the school don't tell them she is sick

Do you think there could be a reason for this? My daughter's only year 3 so much younger, but we have similar issues. I queried ADHD a while back (for other reasons), but school ruled it out. We recently had a meeting regarding lateness and I explained how difficult it is just getting her to do what she needs to do to get ready and out the house, and they brought ADHD up themselves this time and offered to put in a referral. Could it be anything like this?

She can’t sleep at night because she’s anxious. This puts her brain on alert and it will only allow her to sleep lightly in case it needs to wake up and respond to danger. If this level of anxiety continues it will lead to adhd medications and mental health issues. She doesn’t feel safe at school, you can either address this or allow her to get punished for being late, fearful and exhausted.

Why does she hate school. Why is she finding it difficult to sleep. Is she anxious and the thought of going to school making her worse
I think you need to probe a little deeper into what is happening and why

It’s a good time for her to learn that her actions have consequences. I had to get myself up and out at that age (20 years ago admittedly). But Kids can do it if they need to. You bailing her out each times removes any incentive for personal responsibility.

Why does she hate school? Is there issues with bullying, struggling with the work, unmet learning needs? Was she always like this or is it a new thing?

Do any of her friends live very close? My oldest is year 4, but I hear friends with older children say they call for each other on way to bus stop to get bus to secondary, if 1 is late it makes the others late so there is a sense of mutual responsibility and they are never late so as not to let their friends down. Could a friend call for your DD on way to school OP?

Bit unfair, OP said she's mostly messing around at night and swanning about in the morning. Lots of kids hate school without deep seated anxiety.

No bullying and she is OK academically but finds a lot of the learning “boring and pointless”

A friend used to call for her and they then met with others and walked up, but she was making them all late so that’s stopped now.

Thankyou. I don’t want to jump in to making this a pathology. A lot of kids dislike having to go to school. When I drive her up I would say 60% of the kids don’t look especially thrilled to be there. I think kids that age in general struggle getting up in a morning (she can sleep fine on a weekend. Sometimes until lunchtime!) but the fact of the matter is that they’ll likely have a lifetime of having to get up in a morning and drag themself somewhere they’d rather not be (I’m sure not many of us absolutely love the thought of going to work in a morning either)

it’s more the school putting pressure on parents and kind of making out that we are responsible. Obviously it’s our job to try and get our kids to be out the door on time, but does that extend to bailing them out when they’re just taking the mickey?

Maybe send an email to her Tutor/Pastoral Care, with your concerns. Tell them that you are making sure she is getting up etc but she's deliberately slow. You've been driving her to school, so she's not late and doesn't get a detention. You are no longer doing this, so please be prepared for her to be late and you give them your full blessing to give her a detention! If she gets a few detentions, it may make her realise that she has to cooperate in the morning! Yes, you are partly responsible for ensuring she's at school on time, but equally so is she!!

My DS1 (in Y11) has always been a nightmare getting out for school on time (getting anywhere on time TBH) but he has been a lot better this year after getting a detention for being late at the end of last year. Yes, the school will always put reminders out about being on time but they will be dealing with children who saunter in about 30 minutes late regularly and have to go down as an unauthorised absence.

I would sit down with your daughter and explain that you won't be driving her anymore, but you can help her set alarms to make sure she is ready and out of the door on time- eg an alarm for getting out of bed, one for when she needs to get downstairs and another when it's time to put shoes on and go. And tell her that if she gets a detention you won't be collecting her from that either. You could always drop her form tutor a note to let them know what you're doing, then they will see it as you being proactive about getting her into a routine rather than a parent that just doesn't care.

If that doesn't work then you might need to look into if there is anything deeper going on, on ways to work with her to get a better night time routine etc. But teens' body clocks can be a bit out of sync and she might struggle to get up/be super grumpy in the morning. That doesn't mean that she should get away with being late, but it's fine to empathise about how rubbish it is to have to get up (especially as it gets darker and colder!) and how if you were empress of the world schools would start later.

FWIW the same child is a nightmare about doing homework. But we don't stand over him to make sure it's done, we just issue reminders about it and reiterate that homework is important and it is an expectation that it is done. Plus remind him that he'll get detention, which he hates as he has to walk home on his own rather than with mates.

Thanks, I’m glad he got better after the detention. Yeah it’s the same with us with homework. It’s always done at the last minute, the night before, after me nagging. They also give out detention for unfinished homework.

I assumed because she isn’t a big fan of school that a detention would be the worst possible thing because it means staying there even longer!!

To be honest if I was in charge of the world I probably would start schools a bit later.

I remember reading a book on teenage brains and I know it’s completely normal for their sleep pattern to change and have a natural tendency to fall to sleep much later so kids would probably do better. And also I would be at work, blissfully unaware of whether she is late or not 😂 I might start a campaign!!

The school's messages about parental responsibility are aimed at the parents who don't check their kids are awake in the morning, or who give their kids a lift but don't set off early enough. If you make sure she's awake in good time and provide her with what she needs to get out of the door, you're doing your bit, and it's her that needs the consequence, not you.

It's one thing to give an occasional lift because she's overslept, or because of circumstances beyond her control, but fifteen times is too many. If you don't want to put your foot down completely about getting herself to school, you could say that you'll give her a maximum of one lift per fortnight.

It might be worth sounding her out about whether there's any other reason why she's not getting out of the house on time. If she's fallen out with the friends who walk from your direction, perhaps she is avoiding seeing them on the way.

Bear in mind that our natural circadian rhythms change over our lifetime. Younger kids and much older adults are the only groups for whom a really early start matches what their bodies would naturally do, but the mismatch is probably worst for teenagers and young adults. Some sleep researchers have said that making teens go to bed early and wake up in time for normal school start is similar to a torture technique.

I’m not saying your daughter isn’t pushing the boundaries and being a bit of an arse, but just remember that waking up is probably physically and psychologically painful for her, and she possibly can’t just wind down and sleep earlier a lot of the time. It’s different for everyone - some kids manage okay; I used to sob on my way to the school bus because I was so tired. Even now, when I have a lot of flexibility with working hours, on the rare occasions when I have to be ready to go before 9, it ruins the day - I can feel how much
slower my brain is, and I have aches like a mild flu all day.

So, again, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t try to persuade her to get to school on time, or that you shouldn’t let her get the odd detention. I’m just pointing out that we’ve normalised a really harmful daily pattern for most people in society, and teenagers in particular (whether they’re punctual or chronically late) are all suffering physically and mentally because of it.

I’d be inclined to cut her some slack, but talk to her about it. Tell her that you know how hard it is to force herself into this routine, but that school insist on it and school is important. A lot of it is boring, but working through the boredom - like it or not - keeps more options open to do something she’ll enjoy as an adult. I’d tell her that you’ll only be helping her avoid lateness if she works with you - if she puts in no effort, she gets no help and ends up with detention. She needs to make an attempt not to stay up needlessly late and to do relaxing, non-stimulating things for an hour before bedtime. She needs to agree on an evening routine that helps a quick start in the morning: lay out clothes, put books and other equipment ready for school, and so on. Maybe have a total “no screens after nine” rule in the house - so TV and devices go off for all of you, not just your daughter. Show her that this is a cooperative thing, and see how she responds.

I’m sorry you’re in this position and I hope things get better soon.

If there is nothing specific going on, you might just have to let her be late.
But I would suggest letting the school know what's going on, so they know you are doing all you can, and you need to make it very clear that you won't be driving her so it's not a suprise

What consequences does she have at home? I have a Y8 daughter and I know all too well how frustrating they are!

But you are her mum, you are responsible for parenting her, and that means you set the rules at home (bedtime, morning routine etc) so if she's dicking around at bedtime and in the morning you need to punish her - take her devices, ground her, whatever - she needs to learn that she's not in charge! YOU ARE

it's not that i don't sympathise, I'm using similar tactics.. i HAVE to drive my 15yo (yr 11) DD to school, but it means we have to leave by 8.25 to be there before she's late.

she is sloooowly getting later and later and we're leaving later and later. I have told her i am not rushing/driving like a loon to get here there on time and if she gets a late, and ultimately a detention, its on her.

DD's issue is she does have asd/adhd and loses track of time in the morning, i do give her warnings (i feel like a speaking countdown clock) but come 8.25 when I'm sat on the sofa, keys in hand, waiting, i switch into 'not my problem' mode and just wait her out.

edited to add: she has not yet got a late mark, but there have been a couple of very close calls where she's got in by the skin of her teeth by me turfing her out of the car by the school path, not in the designated drop off zone.

Not sure how old Y8 is but going by another post, your daughter is about 12 years old?

It sounds like you’re stressed (understandably) every morning while she’s very nonchalant and “can’t help being late”. So you’re the one starting your day worked up and at the end of your tether while she’s not too bothered?

Honestly, I’d draw a line under this today. She knows that she can roll out of bed late, take her time and you’ll be there to ensure no consequence to her day.

When she gets home, I’d be telling her very informally that starting tomorrow, there are no lifts to school regardless of how late she is. She can take the detention once or one hundred times; it won’t make you change your mind. If she won’t go to sleep at night, she can be tired tomorrow; it won’t kill her. You’ll probably find that she’ll improve very quickly.

I think you have an ideal chance to show her that she’s getting to an age where she needs to be beginning to take some responsibility. You’ll thank yourself when it comes time to get her to study for exams in the future.

I don’t buy into the “she’s anxious and will end up on ADHD meds” thing that someone said, based on what you wrote. Sometimes they just can’t be arsed and there’s no big hidden issue.

Email the school and make sure they know they have your support to put her in detention, and tell her you’ve done this. If she knows you and the school are united, it might help her realise she has to make some changes.

I let my Year 8 get the detentions for being late - how else will they learn?

I hear you though it is insanely frustrating.

I do feel for them as the system is set up against their natural body clock - and why have we even created a society that makes children be 'on time' for a day that starts earlier than most working jobs.

Well if you are not going to enforce any boundaries with her, then I suppose that school will have to. Really lame effort from you though. You are the parent, not the school.