Work situation, need advice & a backbone

[Anotherlastminutepanic]

Started a PT job 2 months ago. At interview I explained I had caring responsibilities so could only do routine 1 late per wk, tho ad hoc extras periodically to cover hols etc OK just not regularly 2+ lates.

If they'd said this was a problem, no hard feelings I'dhave understood. But they said we'd talk about shifts to agree what worked for us both then offered me the job.

The first 6 wks was training so no consistent rota as I was shadowing ppl.

Last wk the my rota was issued. I'm working 3 / 5 lates. I thought, this must be a mistake! Trotted to raise with manager to be told: no mistake this is what we need. If you don't like it, this isn't the job for you.

Now I have no problem with them doing this if I'd not communicated my situation before the rota was given. But I did & was taken on with this known & told wed disciss shifts. It's as if that conversation never happened now I'm there.

I blatantly need to challenge this or leave. I am in the process of trying to leaving, actively looking elsewhere, submitting applications & have been offered a role elsewhere but it's public sector and everything takes forever to happen before I know all pre-employment chks go thru OK & I can give notice. Then I have to work my notice. So I could be stuck on this horrendous (for me) rota for a while yet. I'd suck it up if it was just me, but it's my children who bear the brunt & one is in a critical yr of school so I'm not wanting this to affect them.

How would you raise? Given I've raised verbally & been ignored. It's a small workplace (like <10 employees) & I'm a coward when it comes to confrontation but need to find my inner beast with a backbone cos this is unfair & our verbal agreement about working shifts that fitted my responsibilities gas been completely ignored for no clear reason.

To add, 2 other members of staff have got the specific days / shifts they requested due to their caring responsibilities / 2nd job. So it does seem I'm being treated unfairly & differently altho I know businesses can do that if business dictates but that's not the case here. We're admin & the other members of staff have flexibility to cover the lates I can't.

Cos of the small stulructure, the person doing the rota is also my line manager, and HR, so feels like no one else I can turn to.

Advice on how to handle pls that's firm, professional & covers me if I need to take it further. But ideally doesn't make life hell for me until I leave.

Have you asked if they can compromise and drop it to two lates?
It does seem unfair when this was specifically mentioned at interview!

@JMSA no, I ws so gobsmacked by the response i hadn't considered a counter-arguement, I honestly thought it was a mistake to start. Or at worst if they were trying it on that me raising it would shame the manager into honouring what we'd prev spoken about. The irony is, my manager has similar caring responsibilities (but with more family support) so I was not expecting to be treated like this for several reasons. Then when the convo went in the dorection it went, I was angry, upset & processing a response that took me by surprise which tends to make me withdraw a bit & go quiet as I know I need time to think in these situations rather than react & regret.

Sadly am not sure that you can take it much further, as you have only been in post a few weeks.

I would simply tell them that you're really enjoying the role but cannot commit to regular late shifts, as you told them at interview. If your manager doesn't change their stance you'll have to resign. Maybe their idea of an ad hoc late shift is different to yours....

How frustrating for you.

Do you have anything in writing from the earlier conversation? No help now but in future always get it in writing before accepting.

You have very few rights at the moment if it is a new employer, how much do you need the work and is it a question of you don't want these shifts or you really can't do them?

You need to get a discussion in writing now, but I'm not sure any words can 'cover you' if all your discussion previously was informal.

Unfortunately, it sounds like a bad job.

@bergamotorange I need the job in the sense that if I resign I may be sanctioned as I'm on UC. However I'm not sure if I would be given grace on this as uc are aware of my caring responsibilities & were surprisingly understanding when I was migrated over from ctc looking for work. Not sure if I got lucky with my work coach or if thats standard.
I could do the late shifts on a personal level but in doing so the impact on those I'm responsible for is huge & will absolutely affect my child who has gcse exams this yr. I need to be home in the eves to support & look after them. I was upfront about this at interview so it's completely unexpected to be in this position.

@bergamotorange meant to say, nothing in writing. Never crossed my mind there'd be an issue.

I'm guessing that you're working somewhere like a supermarket - Tesco Express type place? In my experience they'll promise you the world to get you on board and then do exactly as they like.

I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't got a leg to stand on, sadly, unless they have you something in writing at the time you were employed.

@1questionfromme no, health care type place, not nhs, privately owned

What does your contract say ? While you advised them at the interview their response was “we would talk about it” so you have nothing definite agreed before you started. Unless your contract states specifically what shifts you will work ( I suspect it states you work x hours at any time between xx.xx am and zz.zz pm) so unfortunately other than going back to them and asking for a rethink there isn’t much you can do other than look for a new job. It might be that this is just the initial rota and you are being used to fill gaps while you get established into the rota.

Oh I wish you luck then. Hopefully they'll do what they've agreed for you. I have been jaded by the horrible attitude is a supermarket in a similar situation!

Is it worth saying to them that this wasn't what was agreed in the interview so you'll need some time to make alternative arrangements, then ideally work what was agreed until you are ready to leave.

The UC part slightly changes it for me,as you don't want to get sanctioned I guess.

What hours are "lates"? I thought you said it is admin,but later health care. How old are your kids? Exam year sounds like 16 or something? What help do they need?

I wouldn't like to work late into the evening but late to 7pm I wouldn't blink at

If your DC is nearly 16 I cannot see the ‘caring’ issue.

Just do the shifts until you are cleared for your new job.

You have to work whatever your contact says. Verbal agreements are irrelevant

You obviously know that now!

How long is it before you can hand your notice in?

Is there any way you can get help with caring at home for that period of time?

If not, can you be 'sick' for the late shifts you simply can't work..... for the time it takes for your new job to sort the recruitment out?

How late is late? I’m not sure at 15/16 I’d have noticed my mum wasn’t in…

Can you email and bluster it out?

"Hi Sarah, just writing to enquire whether you've been able to arrange a new shift pattern for me yet? As a reminder we agreed Xyz at the interview"

Ditto for previous posters, unless your teen has additional needs, it doesn't feel like being home to support them in the evenings during GCSEs counts as "caring responsibilities".

However if your lates are very late I can understand why it's not practical to be out 3 nights a week.

You shouldn't care about what they think. You had an agreement of one late shift per week. Email them and tell them that is all that you can commit to and really it's up to them to deal with it.

It's not helpful ppl focusing on whether or not I should need to be around for the one child I've referred to. I've other children too, there are factors likely assumed typical about other aspects of our life that aren't which also impact & add to my caring responsibilities, I shouldn't need to list them to be judged when I'm asking for advice on a work situation.

If you are assuming my gcse child is at school 9-3.30 five mins or a bus ride down the road you are wrong, if you are assuming they don't need additional support because thry dont have SN you are wrong. Beyond that, it's not relevent & to share would allow further distraction / judging or be outing for me.

I just asked for advice on my situation at work & how to handle it. Thanks.

Unfortunately if you want a job that won't do this, you are best avoiding employers who with late/night shift rotas. No one ever wants those shifts and they end up desperately hiring anyone and then spreading the shifts out as best they can.

Find a different job. Out of interest what are your ideal hours? Is part of your issue that you are trying to land a perfect shift pattern that won't exist? Like 9-2.30 5 days a week or something

Also if it isn't in writing/in your contract and there's no evidence of it being verbally discussed at interview, you won't get anywhere.

How i usually handle this is by responding to a job offer by email, and stating "i accept the job, conditional on the shift pattern as discussed in interview, of a maximum of one evening shift per week", and copying HR.

Nb op your view of caring responsibilities is arguably very broad and doesn't really go beyond what many would consider normal family life. An employer doesn't have to bend rules/accomodate just anything.

"Caring responsibilities" from a HR perspective is when an employee who is caring for a dependant with long term needs, and includes:

Long term care is when the dependant has:

• any physical or mental illness or injury that requires or is likely to require care for more than three months.
• a condition or illness that is considered a disability under with the Equality Act 2010
• care needs connected with their old age.

Its not just "im a busy mum with 3 kids & eldest has exams and struggles with maths" or whatever

Shall we just assume the OP has caring responsibilities and answer her questions?

In your shoes I would say I can only do one of these three, which one would you like it to be and make it very clear you will not be attending work on the other lates. I would get in an an email that you took the job on on the understanding you would only do one late on a regular basis and this amounts to breach of contract. Then you could go down the tribunal route if unfairly dismissed.

Meanwhile I'd immediately start job hunting.

Shall we just assume the OP has caring responsibilities and answer her questions?

Ok so if she has Caring Responsibilities she can exercise her statutory rights and take a maximum of one unpaid day to make caring arrangements.

I don't think there's actually any statutory right to be granted a shift pattern that doesn't meet the employers needs because you have caring responsibilities.

Shall we just assume the OP has caring responsibilities and answer her questions?

Ok so if she has Caring Responsibilities she can exercise her statutory rights and take a maximum of one unpaid day to make caring arrangements.

I don't think there's actually any statutory right to be granted a shift pattern that doesn't meet the employers needs because you have caring responsibilities.

Contact ACAS.