Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

This 5yos ‘mean-ness’ is out of the normal range?

27 replies

anxioussister · 12/10/2024 10:42

Hi, wondering - because I don’t want to miss some glaring sign of something not being well…

my friend has a 5 yo son - same school year of one of my DC, but not same class. He is extremely sweet to adults, good company by 5yo standards. I genuinely care about him.

however - he’s very competitive about everything, which spoils games with other children and sneakily mean to my son / other children when he thinks no one is looking

examples - deliberately pouring all the toys all over the floor in the playroom and kicking them around despite DS pleading with him not too - and then saying with an angelic smile ‘we’ve made a terrible mess’ when I pop in

Jeering at DS under his breath about his ‘house’ not winning a race at school until he cried.

Deliberately peeing on DS feet when they were standing near each other doing a pee on a walk in the woods and then claiming it was an accident.

There all happened over a couple of months - I guess the first two I chalked up to silliness / not-getting-it - but witnessing the third made something click.

Seeing DS physical reaction to this kid - I have had a conversation with him ‘friends should make us feel safe and happy most of the time - if people aren’t making you feel safe and happy, it’s really important you talk to mummy so I can help you’ etc and we talked about this kid making him feel bad. I thanked him for sharing with me and said that we would have some time off from spending time with this child. I can see my friend on my own time without needing to make DS feel unsafe.

this is a ramble but… I’ve worked with children a long time, we’re pretty social with other families - there have been other children at other stages who haven’t gelled with mine - but it’s never felt so sneaky or intentionally mean before. My question is (finally)

YANBU - you probably want to gently mention this to your friend + the school in case she hasn’t noticed (she has three other children and a busy job)

YABU - this sounds like normal spectrum of 5yo behaviour. Just stick with your ‘the boys seem to be rubbing each other up the wrong way at the moment’ line and keep them away from each other until they’re older.

OP posts:
toomuchfaff · 12/10/2024 10:51

Kid sounds like a character from the Omen and is on his way to some serious nasty behaviour, especially as he knows to pick his victims whilst appearing sweetness and light to the adults. At best a bully, at worst who knows.

WhatNoRaisins · 12/10/2024 10:56

I'd want to know if it was my child personally so I could (well at least attempt) to seek psychological help. Obviously no idea how your friend would take it.

Ablondiebutagoody · 12/10/2024 10:58

You needed to stop putting your son in that position which you have done. The friends kid sounds awful and unusually mean but mentioning it to school would be OTT. Just keep them away from each other.

user98786 · 12/10/2024 11:00

Aren't psychopaths more common than you'd think?

EmberAsh · 12/10/2024 11:00

You've done the right thing protecting your son from this behaviour but I would not be speaking to the other parent. They won't see it the same way and your friendship will be damaged.

UnitedOps · 12/10/2024 11:21

I knew a few mums who would encourage their sons to be a bully so they were not picked on by other kids. They would disguise it under “competitiveness”. They would also not intervene if their sons picked on younger siblings as it was “good” character development.

Hemax1 · 12/10/2024 11:33

My daughter had a friend like that … it got worse as they got older and mum was not interested in what any other parent had to say about her angel and her behaviour towards others.

You are doing the right thing in just keeping the children away from each other.

It won’t make the slightest difference to the parent if you speak to them apart from damaging your relationship.

Stormyweatheroutthere · 12/10/2024 11:35

Sounds like a girl my dd was friends with.. During my mate's divorce it ramped up.....

MumChp · 12/10/2024 11:37

My child wouldn't spend time with child. Why should he?

Original poster
anxioussister · 12/10/2024 11:45

UnitedOps · 12/10/2024 11:21

I knew a few mums who would encourage their sons to be a bully so they were not picked on by other kids. They would disguise it under “competitiveness”. They would also not intervene if their sons picked on younger siblings as it was “good” character development.

Gosh - that’s horrible!

OP posts:
Original poster
anxioussister · 12/10/2024 11:46

MumChp · 12/10/2024 11:37

My child wouldn't spend time with child. Why should he?

Assure you he won’t - just can’t quite tell whether I need to flag it beyond our own internal family choice.

OP posts:
Original poster
anxioussister · 12/10/2024 11:49

Stormyweatheroutthere · 12/10/2024 11:35

Sounds like a girl my dd was friends with.. During my mate's divorce it ramped up.....

I guess this is another concern - maybe things are more stressful at home than I know

OP posts:
Foostit · 12/10/2024 11:49

toomuchfaff · 12/10/2024 10:51

Kid sounds like a character from the Omen and is on his way to some serious nasty behaviour, especially as he knows to pick his victims whilst appearing sweetness and light to the adults. At best a bully, at worst who knows.

I was about to ask if his name was Damien! 😂 Absolute psycho, I would minimise contact. Unfortunately if that’s how he behaves, it’s unlikely the mother will listen.

CeciliaMars · 12/10/2024 11:57

I can't vote as I wouldn't do either. I'd just stay away socially from this child, and tell your child to inform you or the teacher if they do anything mean or that upsets them.

LoquaciousPineapple · 12/10/2024 12:03

I'd just avoid him but wouldn't raise it with your friend if I wasn't happy to lose the friendship. It sounds like she has more children than she can cope with, so I doubt she'd make the time or effort to sort out her son's behaviour anyway.

RyTrerry · 12/10/2024 12:04

Can't vote as I'm on the app.
But I wouldn't mention it to the mother unless she specifically asks if there's been a problem. Otherwise you risk ruining a friendship.

I'd just do as you intend and see her without the boys around. It's good they're not in same class as your DS can develop other friendships

Cattery · 12/10/2024 12:08

A fiend for sure. He’s going to cause such problems for others going forward.

NamechangeRugby · 12/10/2024 12:27

How do you think your friend would take it? Do you ever discuss how the kids get on with their siblings? (I'm just being nosy now, but interesting. If the Mum is mad busy, older siblings can have a big influence, but they are not necessarily going through the nicest of life phases themselves)

Did you call the boy out on the peeing on shoe thing at the time, even just to flag to him you noticed?

I think more than fair to fade from play dates, at least until they are both a bit older and wiser.

We all come across people like this in life and at some stage it is worth learning how to call bad behaviour out at the time, clearly, in front of the perpetrators face and for all to hear. It is the only way they learn, both to re-consider their behaviour or at the very least to avoid messing with the confident self-assured dude who stands no nonsense.

Littys · 12/10/2024 12:33

I would absolutely give the school the heads up quietly as to what you have witnessed and been told by your child, and that they are kept apart.
I would not allow any futher contact.
The child knows EXACTLY what they are doing.
It could just be their character or they may well grow out of it.
Either way, they would not be in my childs company any time soon.

Jessie1259 · 12/10/2024 12:34

Five year olds can be pretty horrible tbh! I had some really horrible things happen back in primary school myself and ds had a couple of horrors in his class too. It's probably not that unusual to lack empathy at 5, if he's still the same at 8 then that's a worry.

As well as seeing the boy less I would equip ds with 'stop that or I'm going to tell my mum/the teacher' and also 'you're not being very nice so I don't want to play with you'. It is good for him to know how to stand up for himself and you can role play it with him to practice.

Apolloneuro · 12/10/2024 12:37

Don’t socialise with this child, but there is nothing to be gained by mentioning it to his mother.

Whatineed · 12/10/2024 12:42

We had neighbours with a lad like this. They thought the sun shone out of his backside, but I overheard a few of these fake accidents when he played here, and called them out in the moment. He soon found that his "charm" didn't work on me...covering his entire plate with a bottle of ketchup, and saying it was an accident, "accidentally" taking my DS toys home after a play date, sneaking bags and bags of sugary sweets in his overnight bag for sleepovers.

I invited his mum and him for lunch one day, kids went upstairs and he flat out smacked my DS with a metal toy gun he had brought, literally pistol whipped him and laughed about it.

The mother did nothing. Absolutely nothing. She just moaned to him about how he'd upset her lunch plan. Didn't even offer to take him home.

I put that gun on top of the kitchen cupboards and told him he wasn't getting it back, and he wasnt getting lunch until he apologised.

I told the neighbour to eat her lunch if she wanted, and then to take him home. I went upstairs to comfort my son.

If his mum and dad weren't going to parent him when he was at my place, I bloody well was.

He's still a sly little shit as a teenager, but their age gap is more prominent now so they hardly speak.

You do well to distance as you have done, but if the situation arises where they are together, I'd keep one ear open on them and call out that behaviour swiftly and loudly.

MumChp · 12/10/2024 12:47

anxioussister · 12/10/2024 11:46

Assure you he won’t - just can’t quite tell whether I need to flag it beyond our own internal family choice.

Show quote history

I wouldn't.

LorettyTen · 12/10/2024 12:50

My DS had a friend like this. He was sneaky and looked for any reason to make fun of my DS, whilst telling everyone he was his best friend. He was sweetness and light to me, I thought he had an old head on young shoulders. Another of his things was turning people against each other.
We told DS to stick with other friends and not to bother with the nasty one and we didn't invite him round again and politely declined invitations to his house.
It's best to put distance between your boy and the other one- just see your friend without the boys being involved.

PepaWepa · 12/10/2024 12:51

EmberAsh · 12/10/2024 11:00

You've done the right thing protecting your son from this behaviour but I would not be speaking to the other parent. They won't see it the same way and your friendship will be damaged.

This, however, I would be speaking to the school and letting them know, telling them I want them kept apart and kept an eye on.