AIBU to think that not being allowed to sit down whilst teaching is insane!

[Supermummy88]

Good evening all,

I’m a head of department in a secondary school where the work load has become horrendous. We have a new senior assistant head and he has made some awful changes and has increased work load by about 50%. Last week he made a complaint that he saw a number of teachers sitting down during lessons and that it’s not acceptable and that we should not be sitting down at all during any stage of the lesson apart from doing the register. I physically can’t stand for hours, but he doesn’t seem to care and thinks that teachers are not doing their job properly unless they are consistently circulating the classroom. I’m very close to giving up teaching completely and finding another career and I feel this has given me more of a reason to just leave.

What do you all think about this?

This.
I am in my early 60s and very rarely sit down in class other than to do the register or if it is assessment, other than sometimes with 6th form. The children are much more engaged if you are moving as they have to follow you with their eyes and are more likely to listen and retain information.
Teaching IS a physical job, or should be -like lots of others! . I am far healthier now than when I used to sit in an office all day -that’s when I had back problems! One if the reasons I like reaching us that so get yo move around all day and I feel sorry for the kids having yo be seated all the time -really not good for them.
Very dispiriting to hear someone say that they can’t sit on a low chair ‘now that they are almost 60’😔😔 That is a person who define needs to move more.
It is not intimidating the children of you move sound while they are working -they are more focused if I stand at the back during writing tasks.

Sitting down throughout a lesson is not likely to be helpful, but to insist on teachers always standing up is madness. In the school where I work, teachers bring the children to the front of the class for direct teaching and sit so they can operate the laptop / screen resources.
They then circulate, often sitting next to a particular child or group. Secondary wouldn't be 100% different, though I'd probably stand to teach if everyone was sitting at tables.

(And terrific username MrsOverton 😁😁)

“Plus it's a poor teacher that can't control a classroom with a look or stern silence while sat at a desk.”

@ridl14

That “look” without needing to say a word.

It’s a definite skill.

This needs to be addressed collectively by staff with union representation. There’s schools in London who before summer went on strike due to workload concerns.

I'd take it up with tge union ... they will deal with him quite competently ... could be age / disability/ pregnancy discrimination for starters!

And they wonder why teachers leave the profession? Are they not allowed to have their own style, adapt between lessons? It also differs between subjects, year groups and how you feel.
Obviously, the days of sitting behind a desk and getting pupils to copy out of text books is gone (I am old enough to remember that!) but surely a reasonable Headteacher can support his/her staff?
I think teaching is a seriously tough job and is becoming more so. And if you are expecting teachers to start at 22 and one day finish at 67 (and one day soon at 70?) by treating them in this fashion, you will find your Staff Room empty.

It sounds a bit odd. When I was at school, decades ago, the teacher stood some of the time, at the front of the classroom, at the chalk board, but certainly sat down as well. 🤷‍♀️

Dictate how you teach? Isn't it the role of SLT to feedback how they'd like teaching to be in the school?

This is so typical of why teaching has become ridiculous in many schools.

What happens is that instead of dealing with individual issues that affect the quality of individual teachers' practice, schools make blanket decisions about teaching.

So, as an example, because some teachers do not/can not think through lesson planning in a succinct way to ensure it is engaging, effective, assesses how children are progressing and deals with any 'sticking points', schools introduce cumbersome lesson planning structures for ALL 50 teachers. 35 of those who are excellent teachers, who can plan very thoroughly, delivering effective, enjoyable lessons, and need to record very little of that process are then totally pissed off and it adds 10 hours of unnecessary paperwork a week to their workload.
What should happen is that the other 15 who need varying levels of support have a round of tailored CPD spread over a term, plus some individual support from Lead Practitioners to help them plan effectively- to understand the process of lesson planning and connect it into learning, progress, assessment and engagement. Some of those 15 will get it quickly, some might need the whole term of support, some will need much less. One might never get it and then that has to be pursued. The end result will be much more effective, and the staff who could do it already, have not had masses of work piled onto them unnecessarily.

Another example- there are a few teachers who can teach great lessons but spend a chunk of them at their desk directing the lesson from their desk. However, there are others who after 5 minutes sit down and do not deliver good teaching and learning _ and are not even aware of that or don't care. SLT, rather than deal with the individuals, decide no teacher should sit down at all during a lesson. They then start checking up in that, wandering round the school, adding it to lesson observation checksheets. It's madness. Deal with the individual teachers and their practice! Have the uncomfortable conversation with Mrs X who is lazy and as long as the class are quiet thinks she has done her job. Don't make 50 staff spend 6 hours a day never sitting down when it is completely unnecessary. I can guarantee Mrs X, even if she is walking round her room continually, is not delivering better teaching, and I can guarantee that Mrs X is not walking round her room continually even though SLT have told her too. Meanwhile all 50 staff are knackered.

Schools create their own problems with this stupid stuff. Personally, I think teachers need to spend chunks of the lesson around the room- seeing things from students' perspective in the room, being a presence, checking progress and understanding, building relationships, quietly 'managing' the room. BUT, not necessarily the whole lesson, not all of every lesson, and perhaps very little of some lessons. Good teachers have good judgement of how to deliver lessons effectively. Good SLTs value that and trust them and deal with the ones that don't, helping them to improve.

@90yomakeuproom

Not to that extent. Anyone who tries to tell me I can't sit down or other things that don't allow me to be creative and show my own style in the classroom will have me walking out of the door.

When delivering a lesson, speaking to the class then standing (or a tall stall if standing isn't possible) is better so those at the back can see you. Once they are working rather than just listening then sitting should be fine

He is ridiculous. I have come across this attitude. However I now work somewhere where they love the visualizer so obviously this requires sitting down. I think there is a perception that if you are teaching directly you must stand and if they are working independently you must circulate. Agree though with noblegiraffe it depends so much on the class and in my view on the task. This assistant head sounds like an idiot.

What I do depends on the lesson I’m teaching, the classroom I’m in and the kids I’m teaching. This varies because I’m a professional and should be trusted to make those decisions on a daily basis. I’ve been teaching 20 years, my results are excellent and my classroom is a happy place with engaged kids learning about lots of things.

Sometimes excellent lessons are where you just let the kids get on. Without looking over their shoulders or micromanaging them. I taught a year 11 lesson last week where they were working on their coursework independently on the computers (I could see exactly what they were doing from my desk and they knew they could ask for help at any time) and we all worked in silence for half an hour. Then we all got bored and had a chat for 5 minutes about something unrelated and then got back to it.

We complain that they can’t work independently and then don’t ever let them do it….

Once volunteered at a wolf sanctuary. One of the cardinal rules was to ensure you stayed "higher" than the wolves, especially the alpha male. Something to do with dominance and pecking orders. Maybe he is thinking along those lines. I would have thought a teacher could make their own judgment in their own classes

From a student perspective, teaching while sitting down, is just a lazy way to teach.

It's literally necessary when using the visualiser.

I've seen plenty using the visualiser standing up, so it's not literally necessary to sit when using it.

I can't physically write under it and stand up. But you do you.

It's not lazy to sit down. It's fine. As long as you are circulating when needed.

No way am I standing up for an hour while y9 do a test.

This sounds like the usual poor management whereby SLT have noticed a small minority of staff sit down through all lessons no matter what is happening in their classrooms- disabilities excluded- but rather than simply speak to those involved they decide it is ‘more effective’ - read quicker for SLT to address- if all staff are given a blanket rule and spoken to at once.

I would speak to my line manager and say I do circulate and that I am interested in the theory behind standing all lesson so could they point you in the direction of the ‘robust data and research’ which backs up this latest policy. If your line manager is decent, they will laugh, tell you to carry on as normal and that the new policy is indeed for the benefit of a few teachers.

The issue with dealing with the few poor teachers at a whole school level like this, is it annoys all the people who are doing their jobs well on a daily basis.

Union. 50% increase in workload?

Not RTFT but you'll get plenty of people telling you teacher workload isn't any more difficult than anything else to handle and that there are other jobs where you can't sit down etc etc but it is RIDICULOUS.

I left teaching 18m ago but have worked in schools where this has been the same. If you have a health reason why you can't stand for hours on end (which it can be) go to your line manager or HR and ask for a reasonable adjustment. I've known senior leaders take away teacher desks to try to prevent them sitting down. Absolute piss take.

So many senior leaders in school seem to operate from the assumption that teachers (a group they are actually part of!) are inherently lazy and / or incompetent. Teachers have undertaken professional training, including education to degree level, often a postgraduate or other qualification as a route into teaching and then plenty of CPD over their careers, not to mention the experience that many have accumulated. And yet their professional judgement and expertise is routinely undermined, undervalued and ignored by senior leaders on some kind of Ofsted-driven power trip. Teachers should be given the autonomy to decide when it's appropriate for them to be seated during a lesson and when it is appropriate for them to be up and circulating to assess / offer feedback / offer guidance. It's one reason I would never go back to it unless there is a significant culture shift. SLT need to identify where there are weaknesses on the staff body and where there are teaching staff who might not be pulling their weight but that doesn't mean applying the same blunt tools to all teachers.

YANBU OP.

Rules change all the time and with the way children are forced to follow rules , then unfortunately rules are rules, yes it’s uncomfortable however so is children being forced to wear blazers during hot days or not allowed to go to the toilet when there body needs to.

Mental! .

This reminds me of a friend who has now left teaching but told me that one of the many straws that broke the camel's back was being advised (read 'told') to place all the children's unmarked books in a specific type of tray, not another colour or type of tray, just this one that was ordered by SLT. This tray had to remain in a particular place in her classroom. This way, SLT could come around and easily see how much marking you haven't managed to do by, say, lunchtime. The tray was tiny, by the way, A4 in size but about 6cm deep so totally impractical. Just ridiculous micro managing and undermining behaviour from 'SL'T.

Yep, it’s just ignorance and show from the Head/management. These people are so removed from actual teaching that they equate standing up with excellence. Then, in their desire to look great and promote an idea that their school is brilliant, they think that having everyone stand up all the time will wow people. It’s pathetic.

It’s not confined to teaching though. I once worked in a shop that had the same. I used to work from 12 noon to 11pm and wasn’t allowed to sit down except for 20 minutes to eat late afternoon. It was a shop that had rushes of customers, then very quiet periods, yet I still had to stand behind the counter all the time. I wasn’t allowed a chair and I was told off once for leaning on the counter. It was back-breaking and stupid.