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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to not believe in God/Religion

35 replies

Lollylucyclark101 · 07/10/2024 15:52

So for context. I was brought up Catholic - Irish catholic to be exact.

I was Christened, had my First Holy Communion and confirmation. Went to a Catholic primary school, church every Sunday etc. I believed in God because I was told to believe in God.

When I was 15, my younger sister 13 was diagnosed with a malignant brain cancer and had to have several invasive surgeries and several years of treatment. She then ended up with a benign growth on her brain 12 years later and again has several invasive surgeries and years of recuperation - she is now 36 and still not "fully" recovered. She cant work and leads a very solitary life with her (abusive in some ways, not physically) partner of 20 years.

I was told that this was gods way of testing her and testing us as a family. My young brain couldn't comprehend this - I mean - why would God, the GOOD entity in all this, want to TEST a child? Test our family? (we where good church goers, my family fostered, we were pillars of the community!)

I had led a sheltered life until I was 17, grew up with strict rules, around fairy tails and encouraged to grow up, get married, have children.

I got married at 18, but why did God direct me to an abusive alcoholic?

I had a baby at 21 and was divorced at 22.

I now have a son whom (I love with all my heart! dont get me wrong!) behaves appallingly (my other child doesn't?) smashes doors, pees in bottles, breaks everything, doesn't wash, lives in filth, has no respect for me or our home, was a nightmare through Nursery, Primary school, Secondary school and College and at 17, wont go to college because "I hate maths". (yes he has SEND - but do you THINK HE WILL GO TO SEE A DOCTOR? No?!

Why would God send me such a difficult person to parent? why me?

Anyway - I digress.

I haven't been to Church (unless it was a funeral) since I was15. I'm 38 now, I don't believe in God and don't believe there is any evidence that Religion is anything but man made. I mean, I am a good person. I don't drink, smoke, take drugs..... I stay on the right side of the law, I'm kind, thoughtful, loving.... why why have I had so many bad/very difficult things happen to me in my life?

I recently saw an old friend, who at Secondary school was considered "promiscuous", but has been married for 15 years and is now a Mormon (has been since she married). The meeting was completely accidental, and she constantly used phrases like "God was good to us" or "God provided...." etc..... kinds felt like she was rubbing it in, despite how she acted at school!
She then went on to ask about my family and children and was shocked that I had not indoctrinated them into the Catholic Religion.... she was then further upset when I explained that I had my reasons for not believing, that I believed religion was man made.

She got really upset and the interaction ended quite badly.... with her insinuating that I was calling her faith lies (I didn't!) and me furious for being called a bad person because I didn't have a faith.

I fully accept that people have religion - You do you? But surely you should be open to the idea that people don't have faith?

What's your opinion? Was I being unreasonable by saying that no GOOD GOD would put tests on a child (my sister) by giving them cancer?... therefore God cannot exist?

OP posts:
Mercurial123 · 07/10/2024 15:53

You don't have to justify why you don't believe in God. I went to a Catholic school and am now an atheist.

Amazonmulu · 07/10/2024 15:57

Yanbu

Organised religion and faith are very different things.

And belief in God is a form of control. Religion is a big business.

Your Mormon friend is welcome to her faith. Just let it go.

username3678 · 07/10/2024 15:57

I am not religious but was brought up religious. I think religion is woman hating but religion has done some good in the world for example religious organisations who contribute to charities both here and abroad. Faith can also be a great comfort to people.

I keep my thoughts about religion to myself and wouldn't criticise someone's faith to them. I'm not sure how you got into a confrontation with this woman but I probably would have avoided her questions about my faith. I see religion as personal.

SilenceInside · 07/10/2024 16:01

Of course you're not being unreasonable. Anyone who claims a god (or any other supernatural entity) exists needs to provide some testable evidence, not anything based on beliefs. If they cannot, which of course they can't, then you are under no obligation to agree with their claim. It should be as simple as that.

ManHereSorry · 07/10/2024 16:03

Religion is a load of rubbish. People use the charity argument to justify it but just go to any cathedral or temple and look at the ostentatious wealth on display and then ask yourself why they ask for donations if they have so many priceless artefacts. Anyone who needs to be scared of what happens after they die in order to stop themselves doing evil is not a good person are they.

God can’t be proven either way but if ‘he’ does exist then he’s either a bastard for causing so much suffering or useless for being unwilling or unable to prevent it.

Best to concentrate on being a decent person yourself rather than wasting your life worrying about God or religion.

MissyB1 · 07/10/2024 16:07

Well that was a long winded way of telling us you are now an atheist.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 07/10/2024 16:14

You don't have to justify why you don't believe in God.

This. Hardly anyone I know is religious. In my family and the circles I move in, being an atheist is the norm. Your old friend is right, in that you basically said that in your opinion her god doesn't exist. That's perfectly reasonable though - presumably she realises that all atheists think her god doesn't exist.

89redballoons · 07/10/2024 16:16

You're not being unreasonable to be an atheist or to bring your children up as atheists. Everyone has their reasons for believing or not believing in God, and everyone brings their own experiences to the table.

However, did the woman you used to know ask you about whether you're still religious? If so that's a pretty weird and personal thing to ask someone. If not, and you spontaneously brought up the fact you're an atheist now and you hadn't "indoctrinated" your children into a religion, I can see how she might have thought that was a criticism of the choices she had made herself.

Dearg · 07/10/2024 16:26

Politics and Religion - very dodgy topics of conversation ime.

You are entitled to believe or disbelieve whatsoever you choose, as long as your beliefs harm no-one else.

Personally, I think children should not be forced into organised religion - that’s their choice as adults, but I realise that’s the simplistic view of an atheist . My own mum sent us off to the local church to get our from under her feet, and because all the other local kids went to Sunday school. So I got all the fables but none of the pressure.

Min133 · 07/10/2024 16:39

Brought up in a very religious family. Don't think I ever really believed it myself even as a child. I'm an atheist. My family aren't particularly morally good and judge others. If things they would judge others for happen to them they always find a way to justify why it's ok for them but not for others. They have some views that go against love and acceptance for others. They also think their faith makes them better than others and that they are chosen and special.

They don't understand sometimes why I am a 'good' person who always tries to do the right things for others just because it's the right thing to do and not because I have religious motivation.

I think religion is a double edged sword, it can do alot of good but it has alot to answer for too

Dilbertian · 07/10/2024 16:51

She got really upset and the interaction ended quite badly.... with her insinuating that I was calling her faith lies (I didn't!) and me furious for being called a bad person because I didn't have a faith.

SheIBU, YANBU.

I believe, you don't. That's fine. I have no more right to call you a bad person for not believing, then you have to call my faith lies. (Which I wouldn't, and you didn't.)

Some people, having had your tough experiences, might find faith helps them cope. Others, like you, might find these experiences destroy their faith. Neither is right and neither is wrong.

Lollylucyclark101 · 07/10/2024 16:52

89redballoons · 07/10/2024 16:16

You're not being unreasonable to be an atheist or to bring your children up as atheists. Everyone has their reasons for believing or not believing in God, and everyone brings their own experiences to the table.

However, did the woman you used to know ask you about whether you're still religious? If so that's a pretty weird and personal thing to ask someone. If not, and you spontaneously brought up the fact you're an atheist now and you hadn't "indoctrinated" your children into a religion, I can see how she might have thought that was a criticism of the choices she had made herself.

Hey, she actually asked about my parents/church and my religious beliefs, which is how the conversation started. 👍

She was angry with my because I had chosen to not believe in god and not bringing my children into religion.

OP posts:
Hatty65 · 07/10/2024 16:54

Believe what you like. Accord other people the same courtesy.

Whatwouldnanado · 07/10/2024 17:00

i had a simple Sunday School type faith, Christened and married in church. Religion has inspired great art, given opportunity for charity purpose and, community to people but is ultimately about control. We have science now and free thought. Look at all the ridiculous wars caused by different interpretations of religious positions. Check out Stephen Fry’s opinion of God. Having seen strokes rob the sight from a surgeon and a fine teacher, and my own family member suffering from lack of mobility I agree with him.

offyoujollywelltrot · 07/10/2024 17:03

Religion is nothing but patriarchal bullshit designed to control. I want nothing to do with it, and wish we didn't have to pander to any of it. It's grooming.

username3678 · 07/10/2024 17:08

Lollylucyclark101 · 07/10/2024 16:52

Hey, she actually asked about my parents/church and my religious beliefs, which is how the conversation started. 👍

She was angry with my because I had chosen to not believe in god and not bringing my children into religion.

You don't have to turn up to every argument you're invited to.

89redballoons · 07/10/2024 17:08

Lollylucyclark101 · 07/10/2024 16:52

Hey, she actually asked about my parents/church and my religious beliefs, which is how the conversation started. 👍

She was angry with my because I had chosen to not believe in god and not bringing my children into religion.

Yeah, in that case I think she was being really unreasonable to ask such a personal question of someone she hadn't seen for so long, and you weren't being unreasonable at all to tell the truth about your faith or lack thereof. She sounds really rude.

If it matters, I say this as a practising Catholic with kids at a Catholic school (though not all the children at the school are baptised). I don't even know which of the kids my son is friends with come from religious families, apart from the ones I see at church sometimes. I wouldn't ever ask like that.

TiredCatLady · 07/10/2024 17:08

@offyoujollywelltrot pretty much exactly how I feel about it. Starts wars, burns women at the stake and keeps the poor down.

fruitbrewhaha · 07/10/2024 17:12

Of course it’s made up. There are so many gods and religions. You don’t believe in her Mormon god but she on the other hand doesn’t believe in the hundreds of other gods people pray to around the world. So you just believe in one less god than her.

offyoujollywelltrot · 07/10/2024 17:13

TiredCatLady · 07/10/2024 17:08

@offyoujollywelltrot pretty much exactly how I feel about it. Starts wars, burns women at the stake and keeps the poor down.

It drives me up the fucking wall how we're all supposed to tolerate it in the name of religious freedom. Fuck that.

It's poison.

Ohhhh but some of the nicest people I know are (insert religious nonsense here)...

And? You don't need religion to be a nice person.

I long for a secular world with no male bullshit.

OneTC · 07/10/2024 17:13

It's hardly an unusual or controversial opinion

pointythings · 07/10/2024 17:17

YANBU, she brought religion into the conversation and then kicked off when she didn't like what you were saying.

IMO, freedom of religion should include freedom from religion.

Dotto · 07/10/2024 17:22

I don't think anyone truly secure in their 'faith' would have reacted as she did. You hit a nerve.

envbeckyc · 07/10/2024 17:32

I too was raised a Catholic, went through the who indoctrination, but quickly realised that the religion wasn’t very good for women, and that believing the literal word of the bible is the definition of anti science!

on Saturday a ‘Christian’ in my local town was preaching alongside a banner that was offensively homophobic! I shouted that what he was doing was disgusting!

I long ago realised that religion wasn’t for me, I consider myself a Humanist, and believe in equality and respect, most religions are misogynistic and homophobic, and in my option are not relevant in today’s society!

I therefore have never baptised my own children, even though there would have been an advantage for local schools, and have raised them away from religion and alls its dogma!

YANBU

Octaviusoctober · 07/10/2024 17:32

Op I was raised Catholic and whilst I like the stories and morals I am not a believer at all.

However I think your thought process is narrow. I don't not believe in god because someone said something silly/down right atrocious re your sister.
I don't believe because it's not real like father Christmas. Everything else like all these comments is just the crap that comes with it.