House sale when you’re the tenant.

[Stormyseasallround]

Our landlord has put the house we’re renting up for sale. We will be moving elsewhere. He’s a nice enough bloke, we’d like a good reference from him, and don’t want to be awkward during this time, but are also conscious that this is our home still for now.

When we’ve owned and sold property, we’ve obviously cleaned up before photos and viewings, stashed any clutter in our car boots, shoved things into wardrobes, laid the dining table with the fancy china, baked bread to make it smell nice……. all of the games you play when you’re trying to get the best sale you can. This isn’t our house, so there’s limits to what I’ll do, but I also have pride and self-respect and don’t want people thinking I live in a mess.

How much would you do for photos and viewings in my shoes?

YABU - make it a show home like you would if it was your own
YANBU - pick up your dirty clothes and push a hoover round, nothing more

I think the viewings should wait till you have moved out.

Once again on MN the people renting are coming up with advice that is completely unreasonable!

No, I don't think the OP should go above and beyond cleaning the house or let the LL / agent come and please as they like. But this attitude of some posters of refusing all viewings / photos until you move out is ridiculous. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

As the OP logically pointed out, co-operating with the sales process buys them more time living there. If she just refuses to co-operate at all he'll have no choice but to give them notice immediately.

Yes this is really important to us. If he gives us notice today (which he will if we refuse to cooperate) that will be worse for us than having the extra time we need.

Exactly.

And I don't know what your area is like for sales at the moment but things have massively slowed down where I am and just aren't selling.

The place next door to me got their tenant out with plans to sell but he hasn't been able to get the price he wanted so now he's looking for another tenant to rent. So she's had to leave her home and go through all this hassle for nothing.

Obviously in that example that was the LL's fault / decision but it would be ridiculous to put the LL in a position where he HAS to evict you to even try and sell his property, but then if he finds he can't you will have lost your home for no reason.

Yes, be extremely mindful of estate agents/letting agents. IME they do not treat tenants well at all, not even the ones they need.
I've been treated horribly by all of them. Even the ones I thought were being nice, (and I baked them a lovely batch of brownies and took them round to their office because I was so grateful to finally be being treated as a human being by them) turned out to be lying to me the entire time and concealing important information from me.
So don't expect them to respect you or your home. They will only want to please your landlord and get as much money out of them as possible. Make sure you set clear boundaries and don't take ANY of their shit.

If I wanted a decent reference I’d ensure the place was tidy and I’d be accommodating when it came to viewings.

Agree with others saying if you refuse all viewings, your LL will just serve you notice. We had to do that with our tenants when we sold. We tried so hard to make it easy for them, said that we’d let them stay on a rolling contract with a week’s notice on their side and two months on ours if they allowed reasonable viewings. They initially agreed to a one hour slot per week, then withdrew even that. So we had no choice but to give them notice, and then when they found somewhere else they wanted to terminate the following week! We did not agree. We probably would have done, had they not messed around at every opportunity.

Only you OR a court can end your tenancy.

he can give you a s21 and hope you leave, but to get you to go needs a court order.

But WHY is that necessary and the preferable option over a couple of viewings and photos??

It's the LL's property!

But it's the tenant's home. And they are legally entitled to quiet enjoyment.

I think being taken to court and being forcibly removed from the house / made homeless would take some of the enjoyment out of it tbh

But it's the only thing that gives your local authority any obligation to house you Or to consider housing you, because they have no where to offer you.

Which is why Labour want to end S21. If you are evicted with fault it lets LA off the hook.

The sane people would move before court action but it's very very very difficult to find properties that are sensibly priced,.

If labour genuinely wanted to improve "the renter's lot" then they would instruct local authorities to team up and build houses through a municipal organisaiton. Sharing funding, builders and skills. Creating houses that are for rent only.

Trust me. Him giving notice to you today - 2 months for a section 21. Then he applies to court. Along with hundreds of other landlords. Courts are deadlocked with cases for months (4-6 maybe longer).
And when you get to court you'd have a couple of weeks.

Ask him nicely to not insist and point out you're genuinely looking but don't want the faff/horrors of someone photographing your personal possession and putting them on the internet.

Thanks all. Part of me would love to be able to refuse the photos particularly as they feel even more intrusive than people viewing the house, but I also figure that it’s no different really to if we were selling a house.

It can happen that way. You can post it on Rightmove with only a photo of outside saying photos pending. Can put in the detail, book to attend the open house for exclusive preview of this desirable property in a chocolate box village, you dont want to miss this perfect family home in catchment for no fewer than 3 outstanding schools!! Call now, spaces limited…fluff. Then after the open house, if no firm offers, post the new photos and schedule all viewings on the same day of the week back to back.

It’s not unreasonable at all, and not everyone wants more time with the sword of Damocles hanging over your head of a 60day clock that could start at any time? No thanks. I’d rather not be in a is today the day I will get a S21? And just go out and find a new rental home.

It’s not always as simple as going straight out there to find a new rental home. Demand is higher than supply here, and we are tied to schools etc.

You will have the same time- 60 days- to find a new home. You just don’t know which 60 days by waiting. It might still be during the school year. Demand out-strips supply everywhere in the U.K. and it is worst over the summer holidays.

Not true. This way I’ve already started looking for a new house, so have the time it takes him to sell, plus the eight weeks (and longer if we challenge it).

Does you contract give you the opportunity to move out with a month/two months notice? Or are you still tied to a fixed period?

Landlord has said he’ll release us immediately if we find somewhere new from now.

There is still the possibility of your landlord selling it to another landlord, and them keeping you in as tenants on the same terms that you currently have. Would this not be even better for you than having to move at all? Can you suggest this course of action instead? (in which case the new owner doesn't really care what it looks like inside - they just want to know how much you pay in rent and therefore what the financial return will be for them).

Your landlord's estate agent can use the interior photos taken before you moved in (showing the rooms empty of your furniture and personal effects) and take some new exterior shots, and use those to market the house. Along with a floor plan.

As other PPs have said, you could offer one slot for in-person viewings, and as there is no legal obligation to allow this intrusion at all, ask for a rent reduction for the inconvenience. You should also insist that any prospective buyers are accompanied at all times by an agent, not let loose to roam the house unsupervised, and specify that they should not bring pets with them (I wouldn't have thought it necessary to say this, but there was another thread recently about viewers turning up with a dog).

I would make sure it’s clean and tidy but that’s it. The house isn’t yours, so why should you make it like a showroom?

Slight tangent, but I wouldn’t offer on a former rental if the tenants were still in situ (unless I was buying with them as sitting tenants to continue to let it). There’s no guarantee the tenants will have left before completion, and then it becomes very messy, very legal, and very expensive. I, and I’m sure many other buyers, would only offer on a former rental if it was vacant at the time I offered. This might usefully be pointed out to your landlord if you want to be left in peace for the term of your notice.