AIBU to market this as a 4 bedroom house?

[MommaDuck]

Keeping this really simple, with an awful diagram…sorry!
I originally moved in to a 3 bed house, decent size living room and dining room. Very small kitchen.

I have now done some Reno work.

I have my 4 boys who are all upstairs- all bedrooms have had double beds, computers, wardrobes etc- good sizes. One room now has bunk beds instead of a double for little ones.

My room is now what was the old living room. Big room 3.5x3.5 fits my super king bed and fitted wardrobes etc. Has a double window that faces front garden (blinds and bushes for privacy).

Extension… old kitchen now utility area and downstairs shower and toilet (this is for me as boys have upstairs bathroom).

End of hallway is a large L shape kitchen/diner with living area (this is the old dining room).

So new kitchen diner is 6x6m has a large island 3x1.8m and a dining table that seats 8, plus room for a sofa down at bifold doors. So definitely big enough to be a kitchen/diner in its own right without being a squeeze.

The new living area- knocked the wall through so all open plan into kitchen/diner. A large sofa sits all 6 of us comfortably. Log burner, TV etc. a living room in its own right as well.

Now, I know how much mumsnetters have had to say when it comes to 3 bed houses marketed as a 4 bed when the fourth bedroom is tiny, or no window, or small skylight or is downstairs etc. Whilst the bedroom is downstairs, it is plenty big where it was the old living room, so surely size wouldn’t play a factor?

Husband says can absolutely market as 4 bed, as now has downstairs bathroom and the living area and new front room is all a completely separate space- I am unsure.

I know estate agent will market as 4 bed as they want to maximise their sale etc.

My floorplan drawing is shit… apologies. However, would you be pissed off if you came to view this marketed as a four bed- presumably you’d have seen the floor plan first? I don’t want to waste peoples time or drag it out.

You are not being unreasonable - Market as 4 bed.
You are being unreasonable- market as a 3 bed don’t waste people’s valuable time.

Our spare downstairs room works really well as a bedroom as there’s a downstairs WC and another room off it so it’s almost like a small apartment (without the kitchen). My son had it when he was a teenager, all his friends would hang out there it was a proper teenage den.

It has a window- it’s the old living room. It’s spacious with a double window.

What does your insurance think it is?

Is there no window in the downstairs bedroom ?

That would be a nice surprise. I think I hear ‘fitted wardrobes’ and i immediately thought, ripping out/plastering/decorating (not a major issue), and i love a fireplace in a lounge! So defo a bonus (for me).

Love your living area! Like others, I would definitely market it as a 3 bedroom, which is what you've said you'll do. Hope you get a sale and let us know how it goes!

It’s defo sounding more and more like a 3 bed with a living room that’s used as a bedroom and sofa / telly at the end of the dining room.

I think I would almost turn it back in to a living room before putting it on the market.

Is there a doorway you haven't shown that closes the hallway at the utility room/ shower junction? I thought building regs dictated that there have to be two doors between a w/c and a kitchen area?

There are loads of houses in London like this, which have been extended and what was the lounge is now a downstairs bedroom.

Yes, I think the local area probably has an impact. Where I live, houses are comparatively cheap, it would be very unusual to have a 4 bed where one of the bedrooms was obviously once a lounge and only an open plan living space with no separate reception room. So I'd consider it a 3 bed.

Where housing is more expensive and space is at a premium, describing it as a 4 bed might be fine.

The only issue with this is:
A) we’re still sleeping in here- it’s very much our bedroom.
B) 4 bed houses in this area are rarer than rocking horse shit, so people seeing it being used as a bedroom would be great for some as inspo!

Building regs changed years ago, two doors no longer a requirement

These are old building regs. The rule now is there has to be a basin to hand wash in the WC. Ours is a full shower room with toilet and sink, it also has a door then you walk out into the utility area, then you walk into the kitchen after that. Building regs have signed off.

We’re actually past the tiny kids point too, but we’ve got a VR headset which involves lots of moving about, talking at top volume and needs space (so can’t be done in a bedroom). Having one person doing that while everyone else does their thing would be a pain! DH loves to listen to the radio while cooking so that plus anyone wanting to watch TV at the same time is a clash. I am usually still working when the kids get home from school so need somewhere private for that part of the day. And obviously in the era of endless plastic toys, having somewhere to shut the door on them and feel a bit more adult for the evening would have been ideal. I think there are lots of scenarios (and we do also have a piano but not remotely in constant use!) where some separate space is really needed/wanted even if you are also really happy to hang out as a family.

I don’t know if this has already been asked but why are you selling?

I agree that keeping the wardrobes but making the offer to remove them before selling is the sweet spot for you!

I’d see that as a 3 bed. The only time I would class a downstairs room as a bedroom would be a bungalow or dormer bungalow when it has been purposely built in that way (so comes with an ensuite or down a corridor housing the bedrooms), I understand why you use it as a 4th bedroom, the house is very bottom heavy, but to me that’s a living room/snug. I love the open plan living/dining/kitchen for daytime, entertaining etc and we have one ourselves, we also live with teens who are constantly in and out of the kitchen, they often have friends over so that’s not a space (in my opinion) for relaxing evenings.

Definitely a three bed. Its one of those situations where you can convince yourself, but not a potential buyer.
I live under the same arrangement, except with two downstairs rooms separate from kitchen diner. We were rightly classified as a 4 bed and not a five.

The OP isn’t really thing to convince herself though TBF. The estate agents have told her to market it as a 4 bed and she was just asking what potential buyers would think.

100% agree, it seems for some people their set up requires the extra living space.

We have an oculus and when the kids are using it they use the space between the diner and island and we can push the table up to the wall if need be, but it’s actually one of the reasons we wanted the alley like run was because we play on that. I also use that space in between for a home workout space.

This thread has been really interesting to see how mixed people are with open family space and needing closed off space.

My Husband and I say, when they’ve all flown the nest we will enjoy a little 2 bedroom cottage somewhere that’s snug, for now the open plan works really well to integrate the family. In a world where many kids are shut off in their bedrooms or on computers, we certainly value all being together.
I’m cooking, kids are at the island doing their homework, we’re all talking about our day- it’s perfect for us!

Obvs neither of us work from home either. So that also helps.

This is my thinking as well, could be great as a room for a teenager, makes them feel grown up and have their own space. Funny you say this because my husband had a bedroom downstairs as a teenager in his parents house. It was away from everyone else and it was great, used to sneak me in and no one was wise to it 😂 won’t tell you anymore about that 😂🫣 I’m sure your son is more sensible than we were 😉 haha

I'm finding the level of criticism of OP's house quite bizarre!

I'm a fan of doors (I had kids who played violin, recorder and now watch too much youtube) but this living-kitchen-diner thing has been aspirational for many for years. People pay a huge premium for this kind of space. The ideal is having a separate living space too but in the 3 bed house market especially, there will be plenty that don't. OP best of luck with your sale. Plenty of people will want to buy a house with flexibility and a big living-kitchen-diner, wardrobes or no. Wardrobes can easily cost thousands - I'd buy the house happily as is and hope I can reuse them upstairs if any bedrooms needed storage.

I love USA renovation shows and when they’re looking at houses having a ground floor premier bedroom suite is absolutely key! that’s what families are looking for.
Forget about individual rooms look at the square footage of your whole house and compare it with square footage other houses.

Well if we are looking at square foot then ours is bigger then most other 4 bedroom houses within the city. The reason being large gardens are a premium and most could only extend out up to 3 metres. We extended double that and our width is 1.5m bigger than average houses around here.

Our garden also has the potential for further extension and an out house if someone wanted to.

In our area our garden is still one of the largest, even with a double size extension if that makes sense.

Although my house might be small to some, speaking relatively in the area it’s large by comparison.

If I was looking for a 4-bed property, I would be disappointed to see a bedroom downstairs – especially at the front of the house. It would never go for a 4-bed price.

It would indeed. The other two houses who done the same locally went for a four bedroom price; actually one went even more as it was sought after.
The price isn’t the issue it’s marketing it to get the right people and not waste mine or other peoples valuable time.