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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think it doesn't matter whether the government is Labour or Tory?

70 replies

Chowtime · 04/10/2024 11:13

As I approach the grand old age of 60 I've been looking back on my life and I realise that whatever government being in power hasn't really effected me at all.

I've never been poor enough to need any benefits, and I've never been rich enough to not worry about money. I'm in the middle and so must millions of others be.

I can honestly say it hasn't made any difference to me.

I think thats interesting.

OP posts:
Endllllessslyendingggs · 04/10/2024 18:51

The problem we are currently faced with is that we have a Labour Party that is more right wing than the Conservatives.

The13thFairy · 04/10/2024 19:17

It is said, "Whoever you vote for, the Government still gets in."

cardibach · 04/10/2024 19:27

Endllllessslyendingggs · 04/10/2024 18:51

The problem we are currently faced with is that we have a Labour Party that is more right wing than the Conservatives.

No we don’t. They are more right wing than many previous Labour incarnations. The current Tories are pretty far right though.

SunriseMonsters · 04/10/2024 20:19

Menopausalsourpuss · 04/10/2024 15:55

@SunriseMonsters you speak the most sense on here, although since I was in my 30s (now in my 50s) I have assumed I won't get a state pension because it will be means tested as it has been apparent since the banking crisis that we are virtually bankrupt as a country. And govts go for the easy targets and policies rather than eg starting a better health system from scratch. Most people are pretty uninformed hence the people on here who think we will go back to the Blair years when there was a golden economy left by the Tories (versus a totally broken economy now) or that adding 10 million low skilled people who are a massive net cost in the last 20 years is not going to have a devastating effect on public services.

Agreed. There's no chance of things improving significantly without growth, and no chance of significant growth without the kinds of changes I mentioned.

To withdraw/ significantly limit access to state pension and make it only for those with little ither income you'd need to first increase the autoenrollment contributions from both employers and employees gradually over decades until they are triple what they are currently. Australia has done similar. State pensions should never have been set up as a Ponzi scheme because it is obvious that means it is vulnerable to demographic shifts, b

SunriseMonsters · 04/10/2024 20:24

Sorry, posted too soon!

But to change it to a sustainable system will have to be a very long-term project over decades. Even two decades of warning isn't sufficient for retirement planning hence action on this should have been taken years ago so that autoenrollment was made mandatory and gradually stepped up.

NHS, they're not going to have much choice but to change the system in the end. It's simply not viable.

Most of the things I mentioned aren't actually particularly hard to implement though. Other countries already have proven models that we can emulate confidently knowing they work. There's no need to continue with this dysfunctional mess that every aspect of UK public life is in, with hugely expensive services that deliver very poor outcomes, be it energy or transport or education or health.

LostittoBostik · 04/10/2024 20:30

Chowtime · 04/10/2024 11:26

I'm saying that migration isn't caused by Labour or Tory governments. It's a global problem - caused by issues within the country they're migrating from, like Ukraine and Syria.

That isn't something a UK government can control.

The housing crisis is not caused by migration.

LostittoBostik · 04/10/2024 20:31

Chipsintheair · 04/10/2024 12:04

I think the tens of thousands killed by austerity measures would disagree with you, were they still alive to do so.

So would the disabled people driven to suicide and poverty by the previous government's scapegoating tactics.

So would the million children in poverty.

Well said

BlastedPimples · 05/10/2024 06:02

What a nonsense thread.

Government policy has a massive effect on people's lives.

bergamotorange · 05/10/2024 06:04

Chowtime · 04/10/2024 11:18

I've noticed it's harder to get housing and a GP appointment but thats due to the increased population, not government policy.

There are 15 million more people in the country now than there were the year I was born, so it's that that has effected housing and NHS. Thats a global problem, not a political one.

It's due to government policy. You've been reading nonsense somewhere.

bergamotorange · 05/10/2024 06:07

Endllllessslyendingggs · 04/10/2024 18:51

The problem we are currently faced with is that we have a Labour Party that is more right wing than the Conservatives.

Erm, no we don't. Where have you got this from? Do you have any policy detail to back this up?

bergamotorange · 05/10/2024 06:13

Chowtime · 04/10/2024 11:18

I've noticed it's harder to get housing and a GP appointment but thats due to the increased population, not government policy.

There are 15 million more people in the country now than there were the year I was born, so it's that that has effected housing and NHS. Thats a global problem, not a political one.

Oh, so this is just an anti-immigration thread.

People living longer = population growth.

It is appealing to say 'they're all the same' but it's not true, that's just a simplistic excuse for lack of engagement/understanding.

GreyCarpet · 05/10/2024 06:39

I've noticed it's harder to get housing and a GP appointment but thats due to the increased population, not government policy.

No, it's directly due to government policy.

GreyCarpet · 05/10/2024 06:53

I can't tell them apart tbh. But I'm also in the middle - not too poor, not too rich.

What you and the OP mean is that you don't feel you personally suffer or benefit from government policy.

Firstly, you will do. You've just accepted some things as 'natural law' when they are, in fact, engineered by government policy.

Secondly, there are more people than just you and some people (at both ends of the wealth scale) benefit/suffer hugely depending on government policy.

GreyCarpet · 05/10/2024 06:57

SunriseMonsters · 04/10/2024 12:11

There isn't a pie that is national wealth to be divided up and therefore more people = poorer people/ fewer services.

The US population is 5 times the UK population. Does that mean 5 times the people competing for the same number of GP appts? Of course not: with 5 times the people they have many times the number of doctors.

The quality of immigration obviously matters. Back when most of our immigrants were from the EU they contributed more tax than the average UK citizen, were more highly qualified in skills shortage areas, most likely to start their own businesses and create jobs employing others, and used social housing and public services less than the average UK citizen. Therefore, they raised the average standard of living for the average UK citizen by their presence here and their contribution. But people thought this was a terrible thing, apparently.

It is absolutely Government policy to determine what immigration we allow and from where, whether that immigration is beneficial to UK citizens, and to ensure that sufficient additional tax revenue generated by the population growing from immigration is directed to expanding services to accommodate the growing population (while still making a tidy profit on top from the surplus tax revenues, if they have an appropriate immigration policy and are accepting the people we need).

Obviously Government policy affects every area of your life. The public and state sector ponzi schemes are draining tax revenues that need to be spent on education, infrastructure and supporting key growth sectors so we have productivity increases and rising living standards.

Not reforming the NHS into a functional system like most other European models means we have some of the lowest health outcomes in the developed world for not much less as a share of GDP.

Selling off water companies has meant they have extracted billions on dividends without any sustainable business plan to fund the infrastructure improvements to sewers and resevoirs to serve the current population and lack of Government regulation and enforcement means they continue to pump sewage into our rivers and seas.

Selling off utilities means we now have Canadian, French and other nationalised companies making huge profits on us paying the most expensive energy prices in Europe while they can subsidise cheaper energy for their own citizens and businesses. This also means the UK is less attractive for foreign investment.

We have an enormous trade deficit as a result of Government policy (quadrupled by Brexit) meaning we are extremely reliant on external investment to stay afloat.

We have no long-term industrial policy, healthcare or pensions policy, energy or food security policy. Brexit has left a £50bn per year hole in HMRC revenue, rising annually.

The education system is a shambles with no effective regulator to enforce the law and is not equipping students with the skills required in the modern economy. Young people are saddled with debt when higher education is free in most comparable countries.

Childcare is more expensive here than in the vast majority of countries. Germany, France etc charge a couple of hundred euros per month whereas in the UK people have to pay thousands. This harm productivity and economic participation.

Our tax system includes numerous cliff edges which are preventing economic growth and productivity increases which are the only ways to raise living standards. This is well documented in rigorous economic studies yet no Government has removed them. Consequently people either work part time, retire early or the highly skilled emmigrate, against lowering overall living standards and tax revenue.

All of these are Government policy choices. All of them are proved to be negative for UK living standards since there is decades of data from other countries proving that their models work far better, which our Governments could choose to emulate.

I find it insane that any adult could think Government policy doesn't affect their life. I agree that there's little worthwhile difference between Labour and the Conservatives because both have (different) but ineffectual policy objectives that will not improve things at all. But that doesn't mean policy is not important and cannot make an enormous different to people's lives if we actually had competent people in charge.

👏

ForeverLoveCeltic · 08/01/2025 07:33

Correct!100% Sadly so few seem to know anything about the NWO & the Great Reset. Maybe they should listen to Charlie speaking at Davos.

randomchap · 08/01/2025 08:29

ForeverLoveCeltic · 08/01/2025 07:33

Correct!100% Sadly so few seem to know anything about the NWO & the Great Reset. Maybe they should listen to Charlie speaking at Davos.

You do realise that you're talking bollocks don't you?

The Great Reset? That was a post covid plan to help the economy.

Sadly the phrase has been hijacked by QAnon trolls and conspiracy theorists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Reset#Conspiracy_theories

Great Reset - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Reset#Conspiracy_theories

EasternStandard · 08/01/2025 08:31

I think it does change things and given economic analysis this morning it might get more obvious

ForeverLoveCeltic · 08/01/2025 18:19

randomchap. Wikipedia? Is that the extent of your research? Too, too funny. 🙈. Go and listen to Chuck talking about when he was Prince C.

randomchap · 08/01/2025 19:28

ForeverLoveCeltic · 08/01/2025 18:19

randomchap. Wikipedia? Is that the extent of your research? Too, too funny. 🙈. Go and listen to Chuck talking about when he was Prince C.

Go and listen to Chuck talking about when he was Prince C.

I'd prefer to shit in my hands and clap. I'm not wasting my time listening to drivel promoted by grifting bullshitters that is designed to take in the dull and ill educated.

"Do your own research" is normally trotted out by people who are stuck in a youtube/social media echo chamber where they only get to see stuff they already agree with.

ForeverLoveCeltic · 09/01/2025 12:46

randomchap. In other words you're clueless.

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