To think I might still be menopausal?

[ObelixtheGaul]

I started menopause in my early 40s. I thought it was a bit on the young side but doctor said it wasn't a cause for concern. He discussed HRT with me, but I decided to see how it went.

Apart from hot flushes, I appeared to sail through. No big mood swings or anything. Got a bit hairier around the chin. No big, messy, difficult periods. Had my last trickle in 2016, aged 43. Put a bit of weight on round my middle.

Fast forward to today. Hot flashes have disappeared although my internal thermostat never really went back to normal (I still overheat at night, but nothing like before). BUT...I am now experiencing the brain-fog, the lack of motivation, some moodiness. The biggest change though is that I feel, well, old. I am still reasonably fit and healthy, I just don't feel like me anymore. If that makes sense. I recognise in me posts from some of you going through the menopause, but I thought I had done with that. Is it possible I haven't? Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Boost

Well from what I can tell and have heard, menopause is not a moment in time but our state after our menses have stopped until we die (it’s incorrect to consider it time limited). Based on that then of course absolutely it could be your menopause - in the absence of other factors.

Peri is before your periods stop, menopause is the time after, so I thought. Worth a checkup for sure. I'm 55 still with regular periods so theoretically peri, life is weird.

Like you I had an early menopause and decided not to do HRT. Was mostly fine for about 7 or 8 years then pretty much as you describe with the brain fog and joint aches.
Apparently it's fairly normal as ovaries produce residual eastrogen for some years after last period.
I went on to HRT 10 years after my last period. It's taken me 18 months to find my best fit (for me, a Mirena plus 2 sachets of Sandrena daily) but the improvement in brain function and absence of joint pain (plus sorted out atrophy symptoms) was noticeable within days of starting. Astonishing really. I just wish I'd started earlier. Would have saved me years of joint issues etc.
Hope this helps.

Hormones continue to decline when you're post menopause so it's reasonable to expect you may still get symptoms.

Yes, you'll be "menopausal" in some way, shape or form for the rest of your life.

The many and varied symptoms will ebb and flow along with your fluctuating hormones (they're still there, just not high enough to trigger a bleed) as your body tries to figure out what the hell is going on and adapt.

It's all controlled by your pituitary gland and is so much more than dead ovaries/estrogen. Your whole endocrine system is affected.

A lot of what we see as "old" in older people is down to a reduction in sex hormones so you aren't being unreasonable at all. Women have estrogen receptors all over their bodies and once the estrogen dries up the body starts going into decline. There are risks of course and not everyone can use HRT but the truth is that it does help slow down aging and preserve one's youth to some degree. I think people like to gloss over that a bit as it seems superficial but what could be more fundamental to living a good life, taking on all the the things we need to and want to do than having a more youthful brain, body and energy?

That's really helpful. I thought I had missed the HRT boat. Can I ask what may be a stupid question? When the doctor told me about HRT he said he would put me on one that gave me a false period. I wouldn't start having periods again, would I? (The best bit is no periods).

I’ve never really suffered with hot flushes or overheating. I’m still that person with 2 jumpers sitting in the radiator complaining about the cold.

I have everything else though.
just like we all have different experiences of periods, PMT, pregnancy, we all experience menopause differently.

HRT is a big help, but I’m still feeling it.

@ObelixtheGaul
Not sure what your doctor is talking about. Not all GPs really understand HRT very well.
Maybe find out if there is a GP at your practise that specialises in HRT or is interested in it.

My GP is very on the ball about it.

I had my ovaries removed as part of a radical hysterectomy over 5 years after my last period. The hot flushes etc had stopped before then but the aching joints and dry skin kicked in af ter the RH. No offer if get though

@Gogogo12345 If you are interested in HRT speak to your GP about it. It isn't every woman who can use it due to medical issues but if there are no contraindications then you could try an oestrogen patch, you wouldn't need progesterone due to your RH.

I had the RH due to cervical cancer. They not keen on giving it after that due to higher rush than benefits. This is what oncology team told me.

I've not actually seen a GP since 2018 ( for a shoulder injury) The cancer diagnosis and treatment came 4 years after that

Well of course you must listen to your oncology team.

The thing is hrt can help to a point but if you're feeling creaky etc you do need to start looking at more regular movement and mobility- moving all the joints in the morning to warm up, also at night etc

Kate Ham Rowe is really good on instagram and also has a book on strengthening joints and muscles etc. she's on hrt but also has to do all of this as well.

I won't be able to take it due to bc and am on tamoxifen and dammed if I'll be feeling old! Exercise and diet does a lot alongside the hrt. It's just not as easy as when you're younger and when on hrt.

Not impossible though. I have to move every day I find, in lots of different ways. Even if just a 10 minute dance in the kitchen.

I'm would also double check nothing else is going on with GP - eg thyroid issues

@WarriorN This is true but I was always fit and healthy did yoga, cardio and strength training, good diet, didn't drink etc but when peri hit I lost all energy, seized up and couldn't sleep through the night due to sweats and flushes, which not every woman gets so badly to be fair. HRT fixed all that within a matter of days to weeks and allowed me to keep up with my healthy lifestyle.

Yes I've been there too. I was a chronic fatigue mess when I stared hrt. First patch took 75% of the pain away.

then had to come off. It was horrific but I've had to learn different ways through. I can't exercise on the way I used to but hormones are still fluctuating and the tamoxifen is a bit of a bugger.

Not everyone can take it

The healthy life style is what's keeping me going now

@WarriorN There should be more support and information for women regardless of their situation that is for sure. A healthy lifestyle is foundational and kudos to you for doing it after cancer and without HRT!

Taking some time off work was key imo. Many women can't do that.

From what I've seen and experienced just focussing on strength is a big one. And sleep and recovery

I don't think there is ever a time when women, no matter what age, aren't actually 'hormonal' - starting periods, mmonthly cycles, pregnancy, miscarriage, peri, post, ante, ad infinitum.

I'm also given to think and believe that men have 'hormones' too, which operate in different ways but, equally, can give phases of being 'hormonal' too; yet a little-used term. Our boys become 'Kevins' and our DH's have 'mid-life crises' instead.

The only problem that I can see is that women of later ages not only look and feel much better since the blue and pink hair-rinse days but they are now expected to operate as fully functional, money earning, productive members of society, as if they were still 21, 31, 41 and 51 until they're 67 (and probably older still).

Some can, most can't. So when do we stop being hormonal? Never.

I walk four miles a day, so still in reasonable nick in that respect, but I do find I am not as flexible as I was. Yoga is a good call, might look at local classes

I'm on HRT and get a monthly bleed due to taking progesterone for part of the month. It's a pain but I'm hoping once I switch to a smaller daily dose it might stop.

It's the progesterone that causes my aches and pains!

Even though I'm now officially menopausal, I have the symptoms of a not very monthly cycle, just no period. It's always the "second half" of this phantom cycle that I feel shit, ache, up in middle of the night for a wee, hot/cold flushes/sweats/chills, emotional, itchy, palpitations, urgh, you name it 😳Always what would be the second half of my cycle - when progesterone is starting to ramp up again (just not enough to trigger a period). It reaches a point where I think I'm actually going to die (slight exaggeration), I get a migraine, then the next day I feel much better. Exactly like my PMT symptoms a few days before my period then - period - feel normal again.

So no, you can keep your progesterone thanks.

I'm not on HRT so this is just my observations of my body doing it's woman of a certain age thing.

How did you get on with all this in the end?
As far as I know, normally you'd go on cyclical HRT if you are in peri menopause (still having bleeds). Once you are post menopausal there is no need for a bleed although getting the oestrogen/progesterone balance right can take some time/trial and error as everyone reacts differently to different makes and types of hormone.

I think if I hadn’t had access to a very knowledgeable GP j would have possibly given up as due to adenomyosis and a proliferative uterine lining I was in a catch 22 of getting continual bleeding when I was on a high enough dose to feel well. The Mirena plus one extra progesterone sorted it out. The alternative for me is to have a hysterectomy and go on continual HRT but current regime seems to be helping (also take some testosterone but at lower than prescribed dose which still helps).