AIBU to want to sleep train my 14m son when DH doesn't want to discuss it?

[Greywarden]

DH and I have one DC together - DS, now 14 months.

There was a time when DS used to settle himself to sleep in his cot most nights and then stay asleep until morning. Obviously we were amazingly lucky and chuffed. However, things changed completely when DS was about 10 months old. This was very much my fault - we took him on holiday and I didn't do a good enough job of recreating his usual bedtime routines. Since then DS hasn't slept through the night at all. DS will now:

• only fall asleep if cuddled up to me or DH. He will typically wake up crying when we try to detach ourselves from him and leave the room. He will not settle if left alone to get to sleep.
• wake up several times in the night, each time again only settling if he can fall asleep cuddled up to me or DH. This process can be quick if we're lucky but can also take hours before he can be left alone again.

I am doing 95% of bedtimes and 95% of the night wakings. I will admit that I do often give up and just end up spending the night cosleeping with DS on a mattress on the floor of his room after the first or second waking because I'm too exhausted to keep sooting him back to sleep and getting him back into his cot bed each time. I also do DS's morning routine / breakfast / getting him ready for nursery most days, with DH typically joining me to help out when I've already been up with DS for an hour or two by myself.

We both work full time in fairly stressful jobs. I feel on my knees from tiredness, yet DH constantly says he is exhausted despite getting way, way more sleep than I do. We have little sex life at the moment. I don't feel connected to DH because we are spending so much of each night apart. I'm pretty down. I love my DS and love cuddling up to him; I also don't mind doing most of the night stuff as I'm a fair bit younger than DH and know I do have more energy than him. Nonetheless, I would strongly prefer the current situation not to continue.

To the crux of the matter: I have told DH that I want to sleep train DS. I realised this would be controversial and I do appreciate that there are a lot of passionate opponents of sleep training. I'd done a fair bit of reading on different methods and arguments for and against and asked DH to take a look for himself to see if he's on board (I came to him with existing reading suggestions but also proposed he research it himself so that he doesn't worry that I'm giving him biased material, which was his initial concern).

DH totally shut down. Refused to read anything. Said it was cruel to sleep-train and wasn't going to happen to his DS. Was genuinely really upset about it and explained that it hurts him too much to let DS cry. Insinuated I clearly don't love DS enough and proceeded to take himself off to DS's room that night and sleep there with him. Refused to talk or come out once DS was asleep. The vibe was 'well if you won't look after him in the night anymore, I will.'

In the morning DH was shattered. He hasn't offered to have DS at night since, although ended up responding to DS's wakings before I did on one occasion when I was too slow to get up. The status quo has just continued as it was.

AIBU to think that my DH has been unfair to me and that we should sleep train our DS, or at least be able to have a detailed discussion about it without DH shutting me down? I know this might sound awful but I feel that if I'm the one primarily facing the consequences of DS not being able to settle himself, the decision on whether to sleep train should ultimately fall to me. But of course DH is important as the dad and I appreciate he feels strongly about it. Maybe I am being the unreasonable one here - I worry that I can't see the wood from the trees anymore and am being unfair. I also appreciate that I might be unreasonable automatically for wanting to sleep train at all, in which case I'd be grateful for stories of how other people have co-slept with their kids / helped them to get more independent at night without ruining their sanity and marriages!

YABU - DH is right not to agree to discuss sleep training further (either because sleep training is wrong in itself or because it is his right as the father to refuse to discuss the issue if he is strongly against it).

YANBU - DH should agree to discuss sleep training further or should leave the decision to you.

I insisted on doing the Ferber method when I went back to work. DH was not keen at all , he thought it was cruel. My eldest woke up on average between 5-6 times in the evenings, so not only did I not have any good nighttime sleep but I also didn't have a chance to relax in the evening. She was 10mo and it took five nights. It was hard but absolutely transformative.

With our second we did it at 8 months, and again it's been amazing. I'll have to do it again soon with DS. I'm looking forward to having a sleep again.

I'd highly recommend the Ferber method. Your DH doesn't have an excuse for his age or financial status. You are a partnership and that requires equal input. If he won't look after DS at night then you need to make it work for you.

You need to try something different because this obviously isn't working for you.

Sleep training didn't work with my kids, but I did try it. The younger one especially literally cried all night. He's a very stubborn human. We ended up doing a lot of sleeping in with him before he grew out of it eventually.

This is just my way of saying do it, but you can stop if it's not working for you. I wish I had given up sooner.

This.
Why are you carrying all the blame and fault? Do the feelings come from you or him?

FWIW, I also did 95% of the childcare at that stage but as a result my opinion also carried 95% of the weight in the decision making over things like sleep training, feeding, potty training etc. I would discuss this stuff with DH and he'd give an opinion, but ultimately he trusted me, as the person with most experience in our DC's care and the one who actually had to do the work, to make the decision in the best interests of all involved.
In your situation, DH would be getting 2 choices: step up more or butt out and let me get on with what I need to do. It does sound like he might step up though, as you said on the occasions you haven't been quick enough to go to crying DC, he has gone to him. Could you just not get up (at least) 50% of the time to force DH do his share? You may find he changes his mind once dealing with the grind of chronic sleep deprivation himself...

Of course you should sleep train. However your very tired Dh will probably find enough energy to argue with you on the landing at 3am. Make sure you stand firm and don’t let him sabotage it. It’s not cruel if done correctly which means consistently and kindly and firmly. This wet dynamic of being overcome by emotion and giving in to the child is exactly what could make it needlessly horrible for everyone, including the baby, and could ruin it and make it pointless.

I think sleep training and especially any method leaving them to cry like Ferber is cruel (he's literally OK with leaving babies to cry till they vomit with distress) but then I do all the night wakings. He needs to pull his weight.

I'd definitely be cosleeping and making DH sleep elsewhere or put up with it.

It took us two or three unpleasant nights twice to get our kids sleeping, one at about 6 months and the other around 14. For that they’ve slept really well and we’ve been on our a game for them far more often. I strongly recommend it. Yes it’s not pleasant, but it doesn’t last long and a sleep deprived parent isn’t great either. Do it.

But that's the point though. He doesn't see the problem with the current situation because it doesn't affect him directly.

My 15 mo is the same at the moment so I completely understand where you come from. My husband and I take her into our bed at night when she wakes up, so we both sleep like shit and have a common understanding of the problem!

And tbh I'm the one reluctant to sleep train. We did it with our eldest and it worked a charm, but damn our little girl is sooooo stubborn! She will not let go! She could scream and call for hours!

How old are you OP? Just wondering what the dynamic is?

threads like this are so depressing. Why do women (who work full time) assume that children are 95% their job, and then end up surprised that men act like dickheads?

Mid 30s. It's a sizeable age gap but I'd say in many ways the most equal relationship I've ever had in most respects. I wouldn't say I defer to DH generally or that he expects me to do so. He never normally sulks / takes himself off without me when upset / shuts down my views on anything. There is something m about sleep training that really gets to him and upsets him - which considering lots of people on here feel that way about it too is a position I sympathise with and do think is owed some respect (just not necessarily the deciding vote).

I think sleep training is one of those things that people do have strong opinions about but for me personally the only person who gets a vote on that is the person who is dealing with the night time wake ups. If he’s not doing those, at least half, then he doesn’t get a vote on it. If he doesn’t want to sleep train your child then that’s absolutely a valid stance for him to have, but in that case he needs to be doing at least half of the night shifts. If he’s not going to help tackle the problem then he doesn’t get a say in how you decide to tackle it.

It is an interesting point you make. DH does loads with DD in the day and probably has her more than me on the weekend when we're not doing things together as a family. He did also look after her for a whole week once when I had to go away for work. I wouldn't say he's a dickhead or that he doesn't pull his weight generally.

But there are certain tasks that I've just sort of colonised from the start and became mine by default. The night stuff made sense when I as breastfeeding and on mat leave but doesn't really any more. Other stuff like DD's clothes, appointments, toy organisation, paying the nursery and applying for free hours, just seems to have been what I took on automatically - not sure why but looking around me it seems like a lot of other mums do the same. Now i've started it is hard to stop as I'm the only one who knows how I like things... making a rod for my own back there, which is a trap I see a lot of women get into when they end up calling their partners useless (they set up their own way of doing stuff and then complain when DP wants to do it a different way so end up always doing it all).

Realise i've gone off topic a bit...

It's not unreasonable for him to not want to sleep train, as you have already said, it's not for everyone. However, he needs to understand things aren't working as they are (especially not for you) and you need to work together to find a solution. Can you buy a superking bed and have him in with you for a while?

That’s such a tough one. I don’t think he can veto if he’s not the one on his knees through tiredness. Maybe he doesn’t realise it’s not necessarily just let them scream for hours?

You could try Elizabeth Pantley (I think that’s her name) No Cry Sleep Solution book. It was pretty good iirc although I didnt manage to implement it very well as I was so exhausted and DS was so entrenched in his patterns by that point. I was also by myself so could cosleep easily and just ended up in the path of least resistance. Or try a sleep consultant?

Would your DH be open to sleep training at the gentler end, if he didn’t have to actually hear any crying? Or is he generally opposed? If you could agree a method, he could leave for 2-3 nights and let you get on with it (maybe coming home during the day to let you catch up on sleep if needed?).

If he doesn’t want to sleep train, he does the night wakings. No arguing, no debate, no negotiation. He does them or you sleep train.

I came to him with existing reading suggestions but also proposed he research it himself so that he doesn't worry that I'm giving him biased material, which was his initial concern

And I bet he didn't look at anything positive - confirmation bias?

This is from the Sleep Foundation:

Numerous studies have shown sleep training, including the Ferber Method, yields positive sleep outcomes (National Library of Medicine, Biotech Information) for healthy, typically developing children. Evidence shows that using these behavior-focused strategies reliably increases children’s willingness to go to bed and decreases the number of times they wake in the night—and these changes tend to stick.

I think you're being a bit of a doormat tbh. He may be bringing in more money (or whatever other excuse you're using to justify your subservience) but you're a good 20 years younger, more dynamic, energetic etc and will prob be in a carer role in 30 years or so. He's not holding all the cards. So woman up and either sleep train or co-sleep or DH covers nighttime.

sleep train! sad nights, amazing 17 years... no brainer!!! (ignore DH)

DC won't remember 3 nights of crying, but will benefit from having a healthy sleeping patter (as will the both of you). Our (now 11yo) did it at 6 weeks after a tearless night with his grandparents... accept that is not normal, but when we got home.. realised possible and a rested you is more important than anything else re DC's health....

I sleep trained both of ours, I told my husband I was doing it, I didn't ask. To be fair my DH was working shifts at one point, so wouldn't have been available some nights.
Look, you are knackered, it's impossible to function when sleep deprived. It is, after all a form of torture to prevent sleeping.
Both of mine took 1 night to train. I did the type where you settle the baby, leave the room. If they cry you leave them for a set period. If they carry on crying go back, don't fuss or talk but just gently pat them, then leave.
If your DH won't take the night shifts then I would not be asking his opinion to be honest.

I sleep trained one of mine. 2.5 hours crying the first night (all done by 10.30 pm), an hour the second, 10 minutes the third. Even the first night of sleep training was a lot better than any previous night in terms of the amount of sleep I got.

My child woke up screaming every half hour all night long prior to sleep training so even the total amount of crying the first night was probably less than a normal night.

It wasn't pleasant the first night and I did wonder if it was the right thing to do but I was desperate. Since then sleep has had its ups and downs but has never been a total nightmare again. Child is a happy well adjusted 3 year old

This. The person that doesn’t want to sleep train should be doing the majority of the night wakings. You can’t make that decision and expect someone else to deal with the consequences. Especially if you you have very few consequences.

Sleep training doesn’t need to be cruel. And it won’t do her any harm and may well benefit her. You may just have to do it despite him.

The PP who said "why do I have to cry with exhaustion every day but our baby crying a bit for 3 nights is unbearable" has a point. Try saying that.

But you could also add that a 14 month old crying is completely different from an adult crying. Adults cry in real pain or fear or despair. Babies cry because they are slightly disappointed. It's the equivalent of saying, "what, no pudding today?" which is hardly the end of the world. And it's only out of habit - the expectation of something which isn't needed can cause disappointment but it doesn't mean it's a disaster.

Also - it's completely natural to push babies and small children on to the next phase of independence if it's time. I don't know whether the OP's husband thinks that it's a good thing to be natural, and natural = mother sacrificing herself entirely to offspring. This is a totally made up sentimental notion. If he holds it, he should go out at a certain time of the year when the lambs are growing up and getting big, and watch them try to suckle and get firmly butted away by the ewes. Kids might find it comfortable to hang onto their previous stage of nurturing - which once they needed, no one is saying sleep train newborns - but it isn't necessarily right for them, still less their mothers, to let them. Ask him if he would feel relaxed and rested if he woke up out of habit 4 times a night. Isn't he better off that he can sleep through and self settle without even realising?

cant wee one just come in with you.?