Northern Ireland - how do you perceive it?

[TheBelleOfBelfastCity]

Genuinely just curious. I was born and raised in NI, opinions on MN seem to vary wildly from no go zone to friendly and welcoming. Trying to got a sense of what the most common thoughts are.

Have you visited? Maybe even thought about doing so? What was your opinion?

Presumably pp is referring to the Ulster Plantations, the Treaty and so on?
I think you're being a little disingenuous @HazelPlayer, but don't really want to get into those topics as it's derailing from the point of the thread.

That beach is stunning btw 😍

I think even if you know the history it's very different to having lived through the history. I'm from Ireland and have been taught all of the history but it is still just something I read about or saw on TV that was happening 'up there'. The flags, the Protestant or Catholic, the bombs, the marches etc aren't part of my personal history the same way they would be part of history for someone who grew up in NI.

Even if you can logically understand why people on this thread are still talking about 'mixed marriages' for instance as someone who grew in Ireland to one Catholic parent and one prod parent and it was literally never mentioned by anyone ever it's difficult to really understand if you know what I mean? It's all just theoretical to me. So as much as I get it, I will never get it in the same way someone from NI does.

Sorry - that was to @janedoe82

I've worked with a few NI men who always made NI sound like a lovely place so I took on a positive view on it from my late teens.

I hope to go in a couple of years time. I've been to ROI but would love to go to NI too. I haven't had a holiday in 30 years because I couldn't think of anywhere I wanted to go. Recently I was asked where I would go if I went on holiday again and NI was the first place I thought of.

I'm not being disingenuous.

I am deeply irritated and frustrated by the total inaccuracy in that posters comments.

The plantation of Ulster was the last plantation. That's one of my main points.

The partition was not a part of Ireland being taken by the "Brits". Most "Brits" neither cared about nor wanted NI by that point.

Though it certainly came in handy in World War 2, something they couldn't have predicted.

That's another of my main points.

Which treaty?

Oh and everyone was getting on civilly on this thread before your arrival.

That's nonsense, @HazelPlayer - you've been belligerent the entire thread, as if other posters are your pupils who've forgotten to do their homework. It's possible to disagree with people without being quite so condescending.

Nope, I've been perfectly civil to posters who were reasonable.

What I cannot abide is English people who say "I really wasn't expecting all the flags. It was disgusting".

Seriously, you must know absolutely nothing about NI history then, and made no effort to learn.

Them, I won't be civil to, no.

I don't care if you consider that "belligerent".

I don't appreciate English people who don't know my country is part of the UK, who can't read the front of their passport, who think my name isn't Irish enough, who mansplain GCSEs to.me, who compare me to Irish Travellers etc (all of which happened to me while working as a professional in England) either. So if I sound belligerent while referring to that, too bad.

".

Obviously, it's hard to reverse an impression that's been etched in your mind since childhood but it isn't really "odd" when you're walking around, say, Belfast now - assuming that you don't get on a tour bus looking for murals, I guess.

On the other hand, there are plenty of other places in the world that many/most people would visit before making a trip to Northern Ireland.

What I cannot abide is English people who say "I really wasn't expecting all the flags. It was disgusting".
Seriously, you must know absolutely nothing about NI history then, and made no effort to learn.
@HazelPlayer

I’ve read a bit about the history of NI over the years but I had no idea about the prevalence of flags in NI until this thread. I’ve visited quite a few countries with long histories of territorial disputes and from the pictures I’ve just googled, I’d say that NI is quite unique with its flags so I think it’s unfair to criticise people for not knowing about them if they’ve never been taught about them.

As for OP’s question, my only impression I have of NI (having never been) is that it’s wet (although I now have a strong flag impression!) I’m Welsh and so have had enough rain to last me a lifetime therefore NI has never been on my list to visit. Although I would love to go to Giants causeway.

Not sure why being last matters? The Ulster Plantation was by far the most extensive and successful of the plantations of Ireland. I don't know why pp was ridiculed for mentioning colonisation. It's the usual term used to describe the plantations.

I was referring to the Anglo-Irish Treaty and British unionists in NI certainly did not want to be part of a new Irish Free State. They very much cared! The fledgling Irish government did not want a partition. It happened because the British government insisted on it.

To be fair - that’s my exact impression of Wales 🤣 I’ve been to Cardiff many times, I’ve genuinely never witnessed the sun there! Almost feels like I’m living in a shower each time I visit. One of DD’s friends is at uni there and says it’s definitely wetter than home.

I think I am very lucky ( being and English Catholic married to a NI Prod ) having moved to the Causeway Coast

Him being from Armagh, not a mission would I have moved there, and even whilst thats moved forward, its still not a place Id choose to move to

Because whilst NI has moved on leaps and bounds, there are pockets where the hatred runs deep, and whilst they are small pockets, we are a tiny population so proportionally they are still loud voices

We cant forget the history this country was built on, and we shouldn't, but at the same time we have to move forward,

Living and working on the Causeway we rely on tourism and 25% of tourists are Irish and thats increasing year on year

The OP was how do you perceive it if you have visited or intended to. As a child/teen, growing up with the troubles, in Ireland , Northern Ireland and England, I grew up with a fear of NI, it wasnt a place to visit or be welcomed

The NI I moved to in 2005 wasnt perfect, the NI I live in now certainly isnt, but the NI I live in is one that is marching forwards, carrying so much baggage but still pushing forwards. I dont recognise the NI I live in now to the one I moved to. The one thing thats never changed though is the pure warmth and friendliness of the people who live here - along with the pure beauty of the country.

This country isnt perfect, far from it. Yet I couldn't ask for a better place to live because of the people.

To answer both of your points: I would never live in a sectarian area, either nationalist or unionist so being ‘accepted’ there isn’t relevant or an issue for me.

DD went to Methody, both for primary and secondary education. It’s the most diverse school on the island in terms of religion so she truly never experienced any divide. She only learnt the difference between protestants and catholics in RE when she was about 12 (and asked me if our family was catholic🤣). She’s not a hockey player, and would be horrified at that assumption - she hates it! She has an Irish GCSE which she studied for alongside other pupils in sixth form, they had lessons weekly via an outreach group. DD helped to organise these as part of an NI wide secondary students’ union. We don’t go to any of the ‘big’ holiday destinations - and certainly neither are Portrush or Ballycastle (both equally freezing and unpleasant in my eyes 😬)

Personally, I find it a bit sad and immature that in this day and age you are keen to judge a child’s religious background based on the (innocuous) sport they play or where they go on holiday… As my post has proved, many of your assumptions are incorrect.

What a beautiful post❤️

Assumptions are funny things.

When I was there as a student in the late 90s it was assumed I was Catholic because I was English and the only English who came over to Queen's tended to be those who were Catholic with NI or Irish parents and were only one generation in England. I was actually CofE but from a Catholic school in England so a foot in both camps to an extent.

It's 26 years ago now which is both a very long time and the blink of an eye but back then we were all mixed. The communities people came from were sometimes mentioned but only as part of getting to know each other. The schools were totally segregated still but university wasn't. And the student housing areas down Stranmillis, the Lisburn Road and the Holy Lands were all mixed.

I've been once for work and just recently for a weekend away. Before I went I did think it would look like a war zone (I grew up in the 80s seeing the troubles on TV) but really enjoyed it - even though I didn't see much outside of the work venues.

But we went a couple of weeks ago and it was brilliant. Especially the Titanic quarter. Love the way you can walk everywhere and would definitely go back.

We went to Belfast/the Causeway coast in 2015 and to Derry a couple of years ago. On the former trip - it was July, just after the 12th - we got a bit lost on the Belfast ring road and ended up driving through some areas where the flags were out in force. I was pregnant, we had our then 2 dc in the car and I did feel quite jumpy in our hire car with Irish plates, although intellectually I knew we'd be fine. And in Derry I felt a bit weird about my southern English accent. But that was me - nobody I interacted with made me feel like that. So I suppose you do bring your half-knowledge/preconceptions, of any place, along with you (I certainly did). But we really enjoyed our stays. Beautiful places and yes, some rain, but not boiling hot (we live in continental Europe). And Derry felt like a place I could be happy in if I lived there (I like small cities).

I feel exactly the same. I’m an avid city breaker but can’t get excited about Belfast. Or Dublin either. I’ve got Irish great great grandparents, grew up in Liverpool from an orange background and sectarianism was front and centre. It’s put me off.

About to go for 5th time to Belfast...love the place!! Fascinating history.

Any thread that brings up NI/ROI/UK, be it Irish name pronunciations, what should and shouldn't be part of a fry etc. will descend into a bun fight, as Psychotic & Hazel have demonstrated.

CastleCourt is grim these days. It took a big hit when Victoria Square was built & later, when Debenhams left. There's been some attempt at investment, such as The (expensive) Avenue cinema, but it's mostly kept going by the government offices on the upper floors. It was the only shopping centre in town when I was a kid in the 90s. It was really busy & bustling, but so was the city centre, which is really run down now. I imagine a lot of city centres have gone the same way since the 90s. Rates for businesses are very high & the streets are so grubby & grotty.

Belfast is a wonderful city, and NI as a whole is gorgeous. Of course there are areas in any country that are less desirable but they don't represent the whole country.

I'm Irish, from NI but moved to London in 2004, met my English dh, had dc and moved back to NI in 2021. My English dh and half English dc love it here and have never had any issues with their 'Englishness'. NI has changed massively for the better since I moved in 2004. My dh was very against moving here for the first 10 years of our relationship, but his frequent travels over and getting to know the place really changed his mind.

I'm lucky that I can live in a 'naice' part which is very mixed. No flags thankfully, but when we do drive through areas with flags (mainly unionist areas) I'm still shocked (as someone who grew up here) by the amount of flags and how they're up for 3-4 months of the year. So I'm not surprised that non NI people are equally as shocked.

My dc goes to a grammar mentioned on here. Her friends are mostly from a Protestant background. My dc hasn't even noticed and doesn't have a clue about religion. I'm from a catholic background but don't practice. I have a very Irish name so I'm sure her friends parents can decipher my background. It's never been an issue and why should it.

Equally I work across the city and my Irish name has never been an issue in working class, staunchly Protestant areas. I did have a funny/ naive moment recently though when a parent said their dc had taught themselves to play the drums, I asked what genre and they looked sheepish and said 'like orange bands' and we both laughed.

I went to a catholic grammar and we played hockey. Only went to portrush for the first time this year. It was never a place we were taken as kids.

I know so many people who have returned to NI post pandemic with a (mostly) English partner. They all love it here but do complain about the rain!

On a recent night out in the cathedral quarter we got talking to so many English tourists and they were all glowing about their experience of Belfast and said they'd be telling all their friends and would definitely be back.

Have visited many times - we are from Scotland and feel there is a lot of similarity between Scotland and N Ireland. Yes the people are friendly and chatty, the countryside is spectacular and there's loads to see and do.

I first visited Ireland (both parts) in the 80s and 90s and N Ireland is transformed since the years of military in camouflage facepaints on the border at Newry.

I was an English child unfortunate enough to live in Belfast in the late 80’s. Car bombs, teachers and adults being openly rude to me for bring English .It was awful, I’d vowed never to return.
I still have family there and in recent years, due to family ill health I’ve had to return. Pre covid I thought N Ireland has improved, friendly, more open minded, I felt safe. Post covid I felt things had regressed. I’ve since had open hostility at my accent, it feels more run down, family tell me there are areas it is no longer safe for me to visit alone. I’ve found people have returned to their insular ways.
Last time I took off from Belfast airport to return home I felt nothing but relief.