Safety of children's sports club

[HundredPercent]

DS age 3 has just started a new sports club which he enjoys. I did not realise when I signed him up that parents are not allowed in the hall to watch, there are no windows and there is no live stream to a tv screen outside or anything like that. The club is run by a man on his own with some older children as helpers. No other adults present. The man seems to have a limited understanding of child protection / safeguarding although said he had a DBS check. I have researched him online and spoken to him on the phone about my concerns as politely as I could. He will not allow me to watch inside the hall as the children will be distracted, make less progress and he would have to ask all the other parents permission for me to be there as I am not background checked. I still worry if I am putting DS at risk by allowing him to attend the club. Reality check needed please.

IABU - stop stressing, no need to worry.
IANBU - I'm right to be concerned, you wouldn't send your child to the club.

Thanks xx

Why are you complying?
He sounds coercive, avoident and without the ability to question his own stupidity.

Adults do not put themselves in that situation unless they're so confident/arrogant that he will get away with taking more risks with your own child.

Pre schools, nurseries and childminders all have ratios. Why?

Schools have camera in them and send the photos of the children's day to mum and dad. Why?

Dbs check simply means he's not got a criminal record up until the date. People in powerful positions still intimate and abuse, they just haven't been caught yet.

My DS started karate at 4 and was in a mixed age class, that bit I don’t see a problem with, some kids will be ready to follow instructions at that age and some won’t, if they’re not ready then pull them out until they’re a bit older.

DS started during Covid and parents weren’t allowed to stay due to Covid restrictions, however the instructor always had one other adult in the room for safeguarding reasons. Instructor also has DBS. After restrictions were lifted parents were allowed to stay but DS is older now and we usually drop off. I guess it depends on the venue though - DS’s lessons are in a school hall so plenty of space for parents. At other activities he’s done, there isn’t much space for parents to stay so you can’t.

To give you a bit of perspective OP DD has been a part of many groups the dance school had the Ofsted registration on the wall along with posters for how to contact the safeguarding lead.

Rugby has information on head case and concussion first aid, and names and pictures of first aiders on the wall, posters with safeguarding information including the list of safeguarding officers at Club and County level and Rugby governing body links.

Swimming had the same with Swim England links, the team safeguarding team info, first aiders.

For this man to have a dedicated space and no information like that up suggests he isn't in a position to teach youth sport. I think you are right and this a side arm tacked on as a money spinner thinking he can run it as he has personal experience but unless he has spent time as a teacher as a day job it's highly likely he has minimal experience with that many students with a large age range and if he had been a teacher he would be on top of safeguarding.

This is such a red flag. I would remove my child now and contact the sport’s governing body if possible.

Mine was in karate from 5, sensai had 2 helpers and parents were free to watch. (They thought 5 was possibly too young and did a 3 week trial to see if he was able to focus. He could but that’s not typical)

This man sounds arrogant and foolish. There’s quite a few sensai out there who are very full of themselves, but it doesn’t mean disregarding basic safeguarding.

A 3 year old in 'martial arts' and no parents are allowed to watch?

hahahahahahahaha

Find something else for him to do, OP

I strongly suspect the reason he doesn't allow parents to watch is not because he is abusing the children, but more that he doesn't want the parents to see how little they are getting for their money.

3 is way too young to be left alone and agree with the question raised about the basics. Toilet needs, accidents etc...What angers me about these scenarios is that parents like yourself are made to feel (from him) like you're the strange one by questioning it, when your concerns are perfectly natural and valid. We all know that a doctor should never ask a parent to leave the room so why do we think it should be any different for a sport club?

Not safe at all.
There should be two adults minimum, but for that many kids probably more.
Aside from the potential assault/grooming risk, if he were to have a medical emergency (eg. Heart attack, stroke, anaphylactic) there would then be no one to call an ambulance / provide first aid; no one to contact the parents for them to come and get their kids; and a bunch of unattended children (including some VERY young kids).
I also just have no idea how he actually manages to run a good session with that kind of adult:child ratio.

I am a martial arts teacher (volunteer). We don't allow parents in the hall (too distracting) but they can watch through windows from the lobby. We start from 4yrs, and it's like herding cats with the young ones! We use the black belt kids (12yrs plus) as extra 'eyes'/ helpers so that there is usually one 'teacher' per 4 kids - to make absolutely sure there's no contact at that age, and no-one doing anything silly. There are always at least 2 DBS checked adults in the room, too - as others have said, taking a kid for loo break etc. requires a minimum level of people. Age isn't as important as size and awareness/ ability to follow instructions, but at 3-4 there aren't many kids who can move their bodies in a certain way if you ask them to, so it tends to be more about fitness & having fun.

@Didhe
So parents concerned about the safety and well being of their 3 years old are being hysterical?

No absolutely not - there are plenty of abuse stories coming out around gymnastics in particular, sadly some horror stories from a couple of local clubs to me, in fact when i visited one of them with DD they actually had posters up on the back of the kids toilet cubicle doors warning them not to complain if they didn't like something. If parents aren't welcome then just no - take DS to rugby pups / football and watch from the sidelines.

I'm now quite tempted to pop back there and see if they still have the same posters up in the toilets and take a pic and post it here and see if people think its acceptable.

Nobody has been hysterical & said he’s a nonce, but there are legitimate issues here with safeguarding, H&S and just the practicality of 1 adult & 30 young kids.

My son (7) is in Judo and parents are encouraged to drop and leave, but the hall is and has always been open to parents to stay and view if they would like. I stayed for the first two classes until my son assured me he was fine and I didn't need to stay on week 3. 3 years old is way too young for a martial arts class anyway in my opinion- we started at 6 and the youngest they will take is 5 at our club- but either way I don't think any clubs for this age group should be out of sight of parents, it feels really wrong, and it seems very out of step with my own experience of martial arts classes for young children.

I suppose the teens are there to do toilet visits, we ith the young ones.i font think any sports clubs are expected ti deal with toilet accidents!
The case of doctors is very different because they are 1 on 1.In my sport the rule us that there needs to be 2 responsible adults on site but that could include a parent un a waiting room, and that there ant be 1 adult to 1 child.1 adult in the room to multiple child is fine (as it is in a classroom).In my sports club in accordance with NGB best practice parents are welcome to view.

In lreland
Guidelines for kids sports is at least two adults present. There is no way l would coach children on my own as l would be open to accusations with no witness. We are not even allowed to be on our own with a child eg for extra coaching for a few minutes at the end of a session.
I think but not absolutely sure with our Gaelic games there must always be a female coach present if girls are playing...can be alongside men. I presume there are girls in this group too.
He is being so stupid from his own personal point of view. Don't leave your little guy.

Our gymnastics doesn’t let parents in, so they have a viewing window… and of bloody course that rule doesnt apply to the pre school age classes! Parents are required to attend those.

I had this with a ballet class for my dd @HundredPercent run by a lovely woman but under no circumstances was any parent allowed to watch. I was somewhat ok (but slightly Annoyed) with it…until I realised that her older brother (a man in is 50’s) was always there to help her move stuff from her car, and would stay for the entirety of the lesson. He had no dbs checks or training when I asked because he’s “not in contact with the girls, he just watches”, my answer was literal “well, if Imhe can watch then I can watch!” to which she said no and I said well that’s a shame then because I removing my dd.

Nope I would not be sending my child there, no way

I don’t live in the Uk but this completely normal where I live. Only a few sports clubs we’ve done have I been able to watch, and even then most parents don’t. One being judo, DD didn’t like it, I think due to this reason, so we did stop.

Knowing there are older children there, not just three year olds makes it slightly less worrying, is there CCTV in the room so anything untoward would be seen and recorded? Does your DC tell you all about what happens there, mine at that age would give a lecture all the way home about what they had been doing. I would certainly be outside the door even if I couldn't go in. It's probably perfectly safe, but I would be right there in case of any problems.

My son started martial arts at 4 and all the classes are mixed ages - 4-12 roughly. The teacher is wonderful and he usually has another couple of adults or teens there to help - but can manage fine without. It's smaller classes though.

Parents can peek in but not watch.

My daughter has done dance since 3 but once she went to proper dance classes at 4 there were no parents. No idea what happens in there but she's a wonderful dancer so clearly learning.

If you don't like the setup just quit. It's not worth the anxiety for a toddler class.

Oh that’s a bit weird. I wouldn’t be very happy in that scenario either.

dgd2 is four and her mum takes her to a martial arts class in a local leisure centre. Parents are very much encouraged to stay and watch.

id take your child out op personally