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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask for use of different toilets at work?

51 replies

Sorati · 28/09/2024 21:27

I’m aware this sounds like a ridiculous problem and it might sound like I’m trolling but this is a genuine issue. I’ve been reluctant to post but I’m really fed up at the moment and just wanted some impartial opinions if I’m being unreasonable before I take it further. I’ve mentioned this to friends but they just make jokes about it and it might sound amusing but it’s really not.

I work long hours (12 hour shifts) and get breaks but have to stay on the premises, there are multiple staff with staggered breaks. It’s a healthcare setting and there needs to be a certain ratio of staff at all times and all staff need to be available in an emergency, our pay reflects that but it means we are restricted on where we can take our breaks. It’s a mixture of male and female staff.

We have a kitchen that’s open plan with a communal staff room with a dining table and sofas. The only toilets we currently have access to in the building are right next to the staff room and kitchen. It’s an old building but the toilets are a new addition where they just boxed off part of the kitchen and put a toilet, sink and shower in. Unfortunately there is no extractor fan or soundproofing, it’s just a sliding door so if someone is making or sat eating their meals then you are pretty much in the same room with a thin door being the only thing separating you.

As you can imagine it’s really unpleasant for the person using the toilet and everyone else on their break who have no choice but to hear and smell everything. When you work 12 hour shifts it’s impossible to go without using the toilet all day and as there are quite a few staff members the staff room and kitchen are in use most of the day.

Most of the staff agree it’s embarrassing and they hate it, it’s difficult to pretend you can’t hear anything and I don’t want to go into much detail but some people have a very low standard of hygiene! There are frequent arguments about cleaning and passive aggressive notes pinned everywhere to remind about keeping it clean. There is a cleaner who comes in to give it a thorough clean once a day but most people want it kept clean throughout the shift.
We also work with one woman with IBS and I feel so sorry for her as I know she can’t help it but when she’s been to the toilet it means it’s impossible to stay in the staff room. Staff have started to bring a packed lunch and sit outside the front door but we aren’t supposed to do that, it’s not nice when it’s raining or cold as there is no sheltered areas.
A few people started sitting in their cars on their breaks but the car park is too far away from the main building so we were told we could no longer do this.

There is another bathroom that’s a proper purpose built one, it’s on another floor and at present only management are allowed to use it. It’s next to offices and the door to that level gets locked every day unless senior management are present which is very rare.
Even when management are present unless you have a reason to visit the offices you are denied access.
We had a brief few days when the staff toilets were out of order and we could go upstairs and everyone agreed it was a much better environment.

I have started trying to wait till I get home to use the toilet which isn’t healthy at all, a few other staff members have said they do the same. I sometimes go all day without eating or if I’m on nights eat before and after work, we have to take the break for legal reasons.

I’m really fed up with the situation and wanted to send an official email or complaint or push harder to get access to the proper upstairs toilets, I would like to encourage other staff to do the same but I’m worried about making myself unpopular with management and wanted to get an impartial opinion if I’m overreacting and should just put up with it?
I have asked management multiple times about access for the upstairs toilets but just keep getting an emphatic no.
I wondered what others would do if they were in my place? I know some people don’t care and are more open about these things but that actually makes it worse. Some of the staff stroll in with a newspaper, magazine or holding their phones and make conversation through the door, it makes me wonder if I’m just being a total prude.

I’ve read enough threads about people bringing smelly food to work and plenty of people found it unacceptable to eat egg sandwiches or microwave fish because it leads to sitting in a horrible smelly environment, that’s nothing compared to a room of people trying to eat their lunch whilst another person sits pretty much in the same room trying to have a silent poo! There have been complaints about the use of air fresheners because of people with asthma, there are several bottles of poo pourri and VI Poo but it’s still embarrassing.

I’m guessing there are no laws about where you can position a work toilet as the company I work for are pretty strict about laws and following protocol. I’ve actually worked in another place with the toilet right next to the break room but it was a proper bathroom with decent soundproofing so no real issues.

What I’m basically asking is AIBU to make an official complaint about this?

OP posts:
Thfrog · 28/09/2024 22:23

Ask management to use it for 2 weeks. I bet they sort it out then

Thfrog · 28/09/2024 22:24

This would genuinely lead me to be off with work related stress

LilianaVikavanovich · 28/09/2024 22:26

I thought there had to be 2 doors between a toilet and a kitchen , so it doesn’t sound like it is up to building regulations standard

marmiteisnttheonlyspread · 28/09/2024 22:29

Thfrog · 28/09/2024 22:23

Ask management to use it for 2 weeks. I bet they sort it out then

Lock theirs if/ when you can gain access. (A kitchen knife will do it)

Then an out of order sign on it.

They’ll have to use yours until its been sorted.

Frozenberries · 28/09/2024 22:33

It doesn’t sound legal and it also sounds absolutely grim. For those pooing and those just outside the door in the kitchen. How horrible. I can’t believe they think that’s acceptable. I would definitely complain. It sounds really grim and with the long shifts that you do, it’s not like people can always wait until they’re home to use the loo

CowboyJoanna · 28/09/2024 22:42

YANBU!!!

Isn't it illegal to have a toilet in the kitchen/anywhere where food is prepped? I'd get everyone on board for a collective grievance to whatever your union is because this is clearly a breach of standards

Sorati · 28/09/2024 22:42

Thank you for everyone who responded,

It makes me feel a bit better that the people who commented find it so disgusting.

I hadn’t thought about contacting my union but that’s something I’ll look into, I’m just worried about being seen as a trouble maker. It’s not the best place to work and if you speak up about something then it makes you unpopular with the managers, I’m training to do nursing so I won’t be there forever but whilst I am I’m trying to keep my head down. I’ve seen people who piss off managers get treated like shit and put on permanent nights or something similar.
It’s the same with starting a petition, they will likely guess it’s me because I have made unofficial complaints.

I wanted to be completely sure that I’m not just making a fuss about nothing before I make myself unpopular, other staff feel the same which is no one speaks up, I just feel someone has to.

OP posts:
CowboyJoanna · 28/09/2024 22:43

Sorati · 28/09/2024 22:42

Thank you for everyone who responded,

It makes me feel a bit better that the people who commented find it so disgusting.

I hadn’t thought about contacting my union but that’s something I’ll look into, I’m just worried about being seen as a trouble maker. It’s not the best place to work and if you speak up about something then it makes you unpopular with the managers, I’m training to do nursing so I won’t be there forever but whilst I am I’m trying to keep my head down. I’ve seen people who piss off managers get treated like shit and put on permanent nights or something similar.
It’s the same with starting a petition, they will likely guess it’s me because I have made unofficial complaints.

I wanted to be completely sure that I’m not just making a fuss about nothing before I make myself unpopular, other staff feel the same which is no one speaks up, I just feel someone has to.

Sod the managers, thats what the union is for. Because the situation is clearly illegal and cant continue

Sorati · 28/09/2024 22:47

Thfrog · 28/09/2024 22:24

This would genuinely lead me to be off with work related stress

A woman left because she found it so stressful, she was worried she was going to cause permanent damage to her bowels from refusing to use the toilet at work. I don’t know if she gave that as the official reason though as she was worried about references for her future job.

There have been other staff members who left and on the reference question “would you employ this person again?” they ticked no.

OP posts:
Neenaaneenaa · 28/09/2024 22:47

It does sound grim. Although I've got the opposite problem! where the only toilets are located in a different building to where I'm based. I have IBS and it's making my anxiety really bad knowing there isn't a toilet nearby.

GoldenLegend · 28/09/2024 22:48

That’s bloody grim. Employers seem to think that nobody has a poo at work but if your digestion decides to go during the day you’re stuck with it and you want privacy.

Twototwo15 · 28/09/2024 22:53

I would not worry about making myself unpopular with management in your situation. The management deserve to be made to feel unpopular themselves, expecting staff to put up with a toilet without even a proper enclosure in the kitchen. It’s disgusting and uncomfortable for everyone.

Spirallingdownwards · 28/09/2024 22:54

report anonymously to the council

NotMeNoNo · 28/09/2024 22:55

This is from building control guidelines (after the bit explaining dwellings don't need the ventilated lobby any more)

"However, for workplaces, the Approved Code of Practice (ACOP) that supports the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 requires that no room containing a sanitary convenience should communicate directly with a room where food is processed, prepared or eaten. Therefore, in workplaces (particularly in food businesses such as restaurants, cafes, catering businesses and shops selling food), toilets must not open directly C be ventilated to deter air from the toilet moving to the food handling area."

link

It sounds really inadequate on several fronts, privacy, dignity, hygiene and sufficient facilities.

Who do you report health and safety concerns to at work? Is it subject to inspections?

Is a ventilated lobby needed between a toilet and a food preparation area? - All Building Control

A Is a ventilated lobby needed between a toilet and a food preparation area? Part G only requires that a WC and/or associated handwashing facilities should be separated by a door from a food preparation area. In dwellings, a lobby is not needed, as ill...

https://www.allbuildingcontrol.com/ufaq/is-a-ventilated-lobby-needed-between-a-toilet-and-a-food-preparation-area

Sorati · 28/09/2024 22:57

Neenaaneenaa · 28/09/2024 22:47

It does sound grim. Although I've got the opposite problem! where the only toilets are located in a different building to where I'm based. I have IBS and it's making my anxiety really bad knowing there isn't a toilet nearby.

I think toilet anxiety is a common thing and when you spend so much time at work it’s quite a big issue. People who haven’t experienced it don’t realise how much stress it can cause.

You have my sympathy, is there anything you can do to change the situation?

OP posts:
vincettenoir · 28/09/2024 23:03

I’m sorry you guys are in that position. It’s difficult for all of you,

Sorati · 28/09/2024 23:03

NotMeNoNo · 28/09/2024 22:55

This is from building control guidelines (after the bit explaining dwellings don't need the ventilated lobby any more)

"However, for workplaces, the Approved Code of Practice (ACOP) that supports the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 requires that no room containing a sanitary convenience should communicate directly with a room where food is processed, prepared or eaten. Therefore, in workplaces (particularly in food businesses such as restaurants, cafes, catering businesses and shops selling food), toilets must not open directly C be ventilated to deter air from the toilet moving to the food handling area."

link

It sounds really inadequate on several fronts, privacy, dignity, hygiene and sufficient facilities.

Who do you report health and safety concerns to at work? Is it subject to inspections?

There are inspections but I’ve never been present for one, I’ve always reported any health and safety problems to my supervisor but I’m not sure who they report to. I’ll show them this and see if they are brave enough to pass it on. If not I guess I’ll have to take one for the team and do it myself, if nothing changes then nothing changes!

OP posts:
rustyspoon45 · 28/09/2024 23:08

YANBU. We have a similarly un-private toilet in our workspace (although not as bad as this!) and I completely understand. It's horrible. People can hear everything and there's an in joke that you just can't poo in the work toilet. But what if you really need to? I have occasional IBS issues and it really makes me anxious.
Luckily we do have another building to access but even popping off there is noticeable. There have been days when I've not eaten due to it.
I would completely push for access to the other toilets and get your colleagues on board.

Sorati · 28/09/2024 23:09

GoldenLegend · 28/09/2024 22:48

That’s bloody grim. Employers seem to think that nobody has a poo at work but if your digestion decides to go during the day you’re stuck with it and you want privacy.

This is so true!

I’ve worked in places where people have been pulled up about taking too long in the toilet or the toilets have been in awkward places. In a lot of buildings that have been converted to offices or work places then toilets end up being put in random places like next to kitchens 🤢.

OP posts:
Cherryflavouranything · 28/09/2024 23:13

I would be breaking that toilet every single time it got repaired.

Josette77 · 28/09/2024 23:22

I had a visceral reaction reading this.

Yanbu. That is gross.

Neenaaneenaa · 28/09/2024 23:24

@Sorati I'm planning on leaving! Not just because of that, but I would love a WFH job where I can use my own toilet whenever I want 😂 small dreams.
There are at least thirteen people working in my building and no toilet...yet management aren't bothered because their offices are close to the toilets.

Nomorecoconutboosts · 28/09/2024 23:31

This is terrible. Even worse that you work shifts long hours - so even if you are a ‘lucky’ person who can time your toilet routines to only poo at home, working shifts makes this impossible.

I have a theory that actually if people can go when they need to there are perhaps less unpleasant odours than if they hang on for hours.

I don’t know why in this day and age ALL toilets especially work place ones aren’t more suitable and user friendly.
(actually I do know, it always comes down to money)

A decent employer would acknowledge that staff need access to toilets with

  • proper ventilation, ideally a window and an extractor.
  • privacy/soundproofing.
  • Really well maintained, totally reliable flush. Plenty of loo roll. A brush that is regularly cleaned/changed.
I was fortunate enough to work in a modern building, most loos had windows, they were close to but not right in top of the offices. They had plenty of space in them which I also think helps with ventilation. All were unisex cubicles similar size to a small bathroom at home but just sink and loo. People seemed to use them for all intended purposes but there were no really lingering smells.
Musclebeach · 28/09/2024 23:47

This gives me huge anxiety even reading about it.
some employers are just appalling

Hope you finish your training soon and can get away form that place OP

Sandandsea123 · 29/09/2024 08:14

Buildings regs are that you are required to have 2 doors between a toilet and a kitchen..