Inheritance and care costs

[Possumcat]

Complicated so bare with me but I would really appreciate some advice.

101 yr old dgm, had been managing at home with carer visits 4 x day largely funded by local authority. She has 2 children, my dm and my uncle who is 15 years younger. He lives 40 mins away, myself and dm live 5 hours away (along with my siblings). Uncle has no children and a wife none of us get along with but things are kept civil. Years ago, dgm will was updated to leave whole house (modest ex-council terrace but now worth approx £300k) to my uncle and a sum of cash (60k) to my mum. We all felt uneasy about this as dgm couldn’t comprehend modern day value of house. Justification was that uncle had invested £12k in house to pay off an endowment. Recently dgm has deteriorated and requires 24 hr care but wants to stay in own home. 60k (my dm’s pot from will) currently being used up to pay for care. My dm has accept that this means she will potentially inherit very little but wants dgm care paid for. We would like a social care review to find out what happens when / if that pot of money runs out. Uncle blocking this because he says they will enforce dgm going into a home as cheaper - none of us want this. Is it likely to be true? He wants agreement that any further costs are split between him and my dm. Is this what would be proposed? My ddad has Alzheimer’s and my dm’s health is poor (mid 70s) so they are facing their own potential care costs. We think cost after the pot of money runs out should come from dgm house equity. Is this unreasonable? Both my dm and uncle have joint power of attorney. Apologies for such a lengthy post - would love some insight as to what social care review likely to recommend once dgm has no assets other than the house…thanks all

But it can’t come out of house equity without selling the house and you want her to stay in the house?

You gran's capital will be used until she only has £23,250 left. Then part of it will be used until it goes down to £14,250.

When it is down to £14,250 she will have to pay a contribution from her income and can keep all that capital.

As long as she is LIVING in the house the house won't be sold for care.

The moment she moves into residential care there are two options - the house is sold and the funds are used to pay for her care - or the family pays for her care so that the house isn't sold.

The only other possibility is that you argue that gran's care needs are ALL health related and she receives CHC funding which means she doesn't have to pay for her care because it is to do with "health" and not "social".... but it's really hard to get this.

Until cash drops to £23,500 she should be self funding. Before you reach that point, you need the council to carry out a financial assessment, so that as you reach the threshold, the council takes over. They may need a DPA on the property, so your GM can stay in the house, but it will need to be sold after to pay her costs.

Councils do not force people into care homes if there is no requirement. Your uncle is trying to pull a fast one. Who has PoA? Is she in receipt of AA?

Contact AgeUK https://www.ageuk.org.uk/ for help and also Adult Social Services at your GM's local authority to get the ball rolling.

He’s trying to protect his inheritance by asking your mum to pay.

once house is no longer lived in it will be sold and costs taken from the proceeds. Unless someone pays it out of some other funds.

It is usually deferred until the home owner has passed away.

OP- I doubt it is cheaper for your DGM to go into a care home than remain at home. Your uncle is just trying to keep his inheritance. Very unfair to your DM who was already being treated unfairly and is now losing her potential inheritance to care costs!

Yup, your mum shouldn’t be asked to pay for this.

I would or go with your mum to see a solicitor.

it sounds like DGM had £60k in the bank so was leaving that to your mum (and the house to your uncle) but I’d be amazed if the will was that water tight.

it could well be that your uncle has to sell or mortgage the house after DGM death in order for the estate to pay your mum the £60k she is left in the will.
after all house values go up and down and in theory the house could have a hidden problem which slashes its value but a specific £60k is £60k.

Or (maybe in the short term or to avoid a Solicitors), I’d be telling brother / uncle that if he’s expecting the current care costs to have come out of cash asset which reduces his sisters inheritance then once it’s gone it’s on him to pay the same amount for DGM care.
once he has done then the costs can be split.

Just say no. Your grandmother has the ability to pay (albeit currently tied up in the house) so she pays. They just put a charge on the house. When it all runs out (which it won’t given her age) then the state pays. Just outright refuse.

If the cash is gradually depleted your DM will get nothing. If the house is preserved her brother will get it outright. I really hate wills that set you up for generational disputes.

OP says care mostly LA funded so what care costs are being paid for, if she has deteriorated at her great age she may get full funding. If she's got cash asset I don't understand why she's LA funded.

I don’t understand why the current care is LA funded because she’s well above the level of assets whereby that should the case. A financial assessment should have been done before the package of care was put in place. I think OP’s got the wrong end of the stick.

No LA will fund 24 hour care at home and nobody with the thick end of £400k gets funded for residential care, regardless of age.

Recently dgm has deteriorated and requires 24 hr care but wants to stay in own home. 60k (my dm’s pot from will) currently being used up to pay for care.

Which UK country is your grandmother in? Scotland has different provision for home care (although not 24 hours per day).

So the issue is, if your DGM's savings run low, whether the council would fund 24 care at home or instead say a residential care home is cheaper and they would only pay for that. That would 'force' her to move to a care home unless your mother and uncle paid, from their own money, for her continued 24 hour care in her own home.

Which leads to two questions:

1. Can your mother and uncle afford this?

1. Could they recoup the money from your DGM's estate after her death, given the terms of her will splitting the inheritance of house and money to different siblings.

Actually there's a third question:

1. As your mother and uncle have POA they should be acting in the best interests of your DGM and not themselves (ie protecting their inheritance, or more specifically your uncle's stake in getting the house). So they should investigate ways to release equity in the house to fund the care costs of DGM continuing to live in it, even if that means there is nothing left to inherit.

But find out the position with the council first, so yes, your mother should press for a care review.

The ONLY consideration at this point should be what is in the best interests of your grandmother. It is her money until she dies and should be spent to benefit her.

Sounds like you need a solicitor and social services not mumsnet

If a care home is significantly cheaper than 24 hour care at home the LA could say it will meet your Mums needs in a care home so there would be a shortfall to find if she stays at home.
If she has mental capacity to understand and make the decision, would she consider equity release to fund the care she prefers?
Is it worth having this conversation? She ought to be told that the house is worth so much so she can review whether she is still happy with her will and her options put on the table. Any professional (social,worker, solicitor etc) would insist that she has a full explanation of her options, even if family say she won't understand.
Or has she given anyone Lasting Power of Attorney to make financial decisions for her in her best interest?
Hardly any adults are in a position to subsidise care of parents and virtually none do so your Uncle is unreasonable to expect this.
It would be morally right for him to shoulder the care costs if he can, as the inheritance is so vastly weighted in his favour, which may not have been your DGMs intention.
Good luck to DGM

It does seem very unfair that your DM will end up with nothing but your DGM is allowed to leave her worldly goods as she sees fit. I expect when she made the will the house and the money were pretty equal. I'd get proper legal advice Op and see if there's a way your DM could at least refuse to pay any care costs once the money has gone

She won’t have to pay anything. Once the money’s gone the LA will start putting a charge on the house.

This 💯

DM has zero obligation to pay any care costs for DGM. I don't know why anyone thinks she has.

Councils have a deferred payment scheme , whereby if there are no cash assets / cash haas been used but a property is available they take a charge over the property and pay the care home bills and repayment is made from the proceeds of the property either on sale of property if it is marketed once individual goes into care or death when the estate is wound up, the relative doesn’t have to pay. We did this with my late MIL - So your uncle’s proposal is unnecessary other than him trying to protect his inheritance.

Please investigate this with the local council care team ASAP -Also worth checking the precise wording of the will if you can with a solicitor to understand if it exactly says the split of assets is cash / property or weather the wording is looser which could mean your DM share is a fixed amount which would then have to come from sale of property if insufficient cash funds are held.

Well I'm glad to read that @BIossomtoes .

Thanks everyone for your replies - you are absolutely right about us needing to speak to social services and a solicitor to get clarity. I will sit down next week and work through all your suggestions and questions. Very grateful for you help.