To think that being ‘too nice’ can sometimes be a form of manipulation?

[LemonWasp]

I’ve encountered people who are excessively nice, and I can’t help but wonder if it’s a tactic to manipulate others. AIBU to think that being overly nice can be insincere?

In my experience people pleasers are usually the ones being manipulated by the people who have put them in a position where they don’t feel they can say No.

Speaking these days and existing is a minefield. Every behaviour or personality trait can be twisted into a negative by people. Usually people pick at qualities in others that they don’t possess themselves though IME, that in itself is also manipulative.

@Drivingoverlemons

In my experience people pleasers are usually the ones being manipulated by the people who have put them to in a position where they don’t feel they can say No.

This is true. They are weak people who don’t have any faith in their capacity to be loved and respected inherently. So they try to win these things by basically denying anyone the opportunity to find anything negative about them.

It doesn’t usually come from a place of calculated manipulation just a sense of insecurity and the powerful need not to be disliked. I think most of them don’t do it deliberately and they aren’t bad people they do it as a form of self defence and as you say it leaves them vulnerable to abuse.

But it is also true that it’s very hard to have a deep, honest and trusting relationship with someone like this because you always feel you don’t know who they are.

I know someone like this who I have known for years and is a friendly acquaintance. On paper I like her: she’s kind and attentive and we have similar views: she’s the sort of person everyone says is “lovely” there’s certainly nothing to dislike about her. But she is very much of a people pleaser and will go to ridiculous lengths to do what she thinks people want. There’s something sort of “not there”, there’s always this sense that she never says what she really means. It’s very draining and unsettling to be around and I have always felt uncomfortable with her.

Someone I used to know always described themselves as "too nice" .... what it actually was was "too weak" . Very conflict avoidant and couldn't express emotions.

I think that's a very cynical way of looking at people who are nice. I try to be nice and kind, there's a lot of negativity in this life, why would I want to contribute to that? I try to stay positive, offer help and support wherever possible and I genuinely don't want anything in return, there's no ulterior motive. I know how it feels to be bullied, unsure, sad, etc. and it's awful, I don't want to make others feel that way, especially not because of me.

Exactly,

@FishBowlSwimmer

I know how it feels to be bullied, unsure, sad, etc. and it's awful, I don't want to make others feel that way, especially not because of me

Thats true and that’s a good quality. Empathy and kindness are great things to possess.

But to me “niceness” is subtly different from being good or kind. It has a quality of blandness and emotional dishonesty. Not rocking the boat, going with the flow, not standing out or having any strong or contrary opinions or the courage to go against the majority. It’s not a crime at all but if all you can say about someone is that they are “nice”, it usually suggests there’s not much to them.

Being “nice” is a social, superficial quality. It tells you nothing of someone’s moral character, intelligence or integrity and it’s very often only face value. No one can be nice all the time and you can’t really know someone if that’s all you see of them.

While it's true that some people can be manipulative whether intentionally or not... surely it's depressingly cynical to assume people who are kind, gentle, don't bitch about others, genuinely want to help and listen and make the world better are manipulative... can't we allow for the possibility that some people are just, well, nice! I want to live in a world where people treat each other well and I want to be one of those people - I'd be really bloody hurt if someone thought I was weak, people pleasing or manipulative when I'm trying (after much therapy and years of self reflection) to actually just be a decent human.

I so agree, there's got to be room left for being a relatively good person. Sorry you had tough things happen and thank you for being a good 'un.

I try to be kind , not sure it's the same as 'nice , 'but I'm not always having nice thoughts about everyone I come across or related to , but having a sympathetic ear now and again or doing the odd favour for someone I don't see as manipulative. Some of the more sickly sweet nice people I've come across can be false.
Being mean , horrible and only looking out for number one, those type of people seem to thrive though and get on in life a lot more than the genuinely nicer people. It's a bit of a mixed bag.

I've seen a couple of things like this which highlight potential toxicity of being "nice".

Exactly. There’s a critical distinction between “nice” and “good”. “Nice” is something people project rather than something people actually are.

I actually think this is a 'you' problem. It's pretty cynical to assume someone being nice must have hidden motives.

I've encountered this attitude before a couple of times. Both times were when I was at the pub and offered to buy a drink for a someone in the group when we were at the bar together. I had the response 'no as I don't want to owe you anything'. I thought that was a way creepier response than what I'd see as general good manners re: offering to buy a drink. In the older generation in my family it would have been seen as extremely rude not to offer, so maybe it's partly cultural.

I think it's a bit unpleasant to think of everything in such a transactional way. Some people are just nice!

Yes I think it's insincere. I used to be like this, thinking if I did whatever that person wanted they would like me and it doesn't work. It's all to be liked. Being "nice" shouldn't be your main personality trait it's boring. I know loads of people who are so many things, some people like them some people don't but they are all nice and generous to their friends and loved ones. They don't have to go around defining themselves as nice people.

You’re right. People pleasing, being a martyr etc are often manipulative control tactics and only a minority behave kindly because they are genuinely kind.

@StarlightExpressAnswerMeYes

I actually think this is a 'you' problem. It's pretty cynical to assume someone being nice must have hidden motives.

I understand what you’re saying. I am pretty cynical tbh but it’s a fair challenge.

This is partly a question of definition isn’t it? It’s how you define “nice”. I don’t think everyone who is charitable and kind is manipulative to be clear.

For me the word “nice” doesn’t mean good or kind, it means someone who is very good at making themselves superficially acceptable.

I suppose what I am suspicious is people who are “nice” but that’s all there is to them. People for whom there is nothing below the surface.

I agree. I also despair of women who dump decent men because they are “too nice” - and I don’t mean in a love bombing way, but because “nice is boring”.

I'm currently in a situation at work where I feel quite bullied by a couple of team mates. My only coping mechanism is to "kill it with kindness".

I have a transfer agreed to another team, where the people are strong characters, but at the end of the day have a basic respect.

Until my transfer is actually agreed, I'm trying my hardest not to bite back to the bullying. I'm trying to maintain some professional dignity in my final few days

Just chiming in to agree that sometimes bullying women call other women 'too nice' because they literally can't find anything else to criticise.

It makes me feel like we just can't win, too nice, too mean, it's just another way to divide women and bitch about them. Some people are genuinely good decent warm pleasant people!