AIBU to wish the UK healthcare system functioned properly?

[DickEmery]

Or at least tolerably well. Because what we have now is woeful and it impacts on all aspects of life.

Shocking!

Unfortunately as a HCP this is something that I, along with many of my colleagues are all too aware of. It genuinely concerns me that in an emergency I or a member of my family will not get the best or most appropriate care due to the current situation within the NHS.

Of course private healthcare has limitations, nobody is suggesting that it doesn’t. Considering though that the vast majority of care is not on an emergency basis it has been incredibly useful for our family and I would never be without it again. For example, DD needed her tonsils out last year - the NHS wait was 3 years, she had them out within 3 weeks privately.

But emergency care is excellent. My late DH had a cardiac arrest. The ambulance was there within 4 minutes - 4 minutes during which the 999 operator talked me through cardiac compression, which I carried out. DH was immediately operated on to put in a stent and transferred to the Intensive Therapy Unit. My ex-BiL is also a HCP (a doctor) and my DD had constant access to him and her cousin (also a doctor) talking through all the treatment my DH was receiving. Nothing was not done that could be done. The chances of recovering from a cardiac arrest (i.e. his heart stopped) are poor even if it takes place in a hospital, because of the damage done to the brain in the first minutes of lack of oxygen - and chances were reduced by DH's age. I was not in the room at the time so did not know within 5 minutes either way when the arrest took place.

Elective care not so wonderful - triage in operation, naturally, but the NHS has been underfunded by the Conservatives and overburdened with PFI and privatization under New Labour. I think the Conservative underfunding and drive to use 'outside providers' is intended to undermine the NHS - as is the promotion of private medicine and the encouragement to use it. Also undermining the system is the cap on training HCP - importing from abroad and using agency workers are both expensive (immigration is not a no cost fix for labour shortages). The more private medicine is used particularly for straightforward operations like tonsil removal, the less efficient the NHS becomes because expertise is more difficult to develop. But I expect you know this.

Likewise. Just finishing 3 years treatment for cancer and it has been fast, efficient & caring all the way through. I couldn't have asked for more.

The private sector can plan elective work as they don't have to cope with emergencies or patients with multiple complex conditions.
How many NHS hip replacements are delayed because someone has been admitted post fall or car crash? Planned bowel surgery delayed by someone with appendicitis.
HCPs being called away to cardiac arrests, staff being called to deal with patients with anger and aggression due to dementia and psychiatric conditions.
I don't suppose the private sector has to deal with drunks and drug addicts either.
And post private treatment patients will go home as soon as medically fit and not have to wait until care packages are in place - either due to social services being over stretched or by family dragging their heels.

In a lot of cases it is not excellent. It is luck of the draw and highly depends on the area of the UK in which you live. I am in NI, our public healthcare system is now rated as one of the worst in the entirety of Europe in terms of waiting times and outcomes. One of our own orthopaedic consultants was reduced to tears when his own elderly mother was forced to wait 4 days on a trolley in an A&E corridor - she was in agony due to a badly broken hip and needed urgent surgery. Deaths due to ambulance shortages and long wait times are becoming increasingly common, even in life or death situations like heart attacks

This is true @HighlandCow78 i know of someone who died as there was no ambulance available. A young father. It is very worrying that you could phone the nhs for emergency care and be told, sorry we have nobody to come to you

You gets what you pay for

Yes someone will say how badly run and organised and how it has more than enough money , but compared to any functioning health care system we pay far less which suggests that money is a significant part of the problem

Quite. People who praise private care forget what the NHS does all day every day. I hate this constant sniping at the NHS.

There’s a difference between valid criticism of a broken system and sniping. People are more than justified in wanting better care and calling out their own bad experiences. Posters often seem to forget this.

And why is that? Because of chronic underfunding of a public service by people who I sometimes suspect hate the fact that everyone can get treatment free at the point of access and would like to end that. Black propaganda is used by both Conservatives and Labour (who have allowed the CEO of a private health care company into meetings on the re-organisation of the NHS) about how poor the NHS is.
For what it is worth, my late DH had his cardiac arrest in Blackpool, one of the most deprived areas of the north of England. GP coverage is poor (and we did not use it, since we also reside in Leicester, where GP coverage is much better) but Blackpool Victoria Hospital has a state-of-the-art Intensive Therapy Unit. According to my ex-BiL (who knows, he is well-up in health circles) it is one of the best in the country. The ambulances were fast and well-appointed and the paramedics worked as fast as they could. They were very good, they were compassionate and the treatment my late DH, I, and our family got was second to none. They were heroes.

Sorry but that's ridiculous. I've had more bad experiences with British nurses than foreign. African and Polish nurses have been the best in my experience- nothing is too much hassle. Meanwhile, The British one is never seen again or getting extra comfy at the desk.

Who do you think will be chasing all these departments for missed appointment penalties/ gp appointments... maybe you don't understand the public sector that cost in admin staff would be better used towards more nursing staff / doctors or facilities.

@ThisHangryPinkBalonz Lazy Brits eh ? Like most tradesmen, shop workers, teachers….sounds suspiciously racist. If you said that about Indian or Nigerian nurses….

Surely you're aware that wages in the Republic of Ireland are about the same as the UK (if not slightly higher) and earnings in Australia far out strip anything in the UK. Why in god's name would nurses from those countries work for lower wages here? It's not even as if the cost of living or accommodation is dirt cheap - quite the opposite. You've got a very scewed angle on it all.

I agree. But sniping is encouraged in some quarters.

It's easy to say that if you've had a good experience though, isn't it. Are you saying that people who have been failed badly by the NHS should just shut up about it and pretend everything is ok?

A big problem with the NHS is that many nurses are thick as shit and don’t care. This causes them to miss warning signs and feed back incorrect information to doctors then the patient suffers or even dies.
I’ve been fortunate enough to use private nurses at home and the difference is night and day.
Before anyone starts, no, they aren’t stressed and rushed off their feet in NHS hospitals, I’ve been an inpatient many times and the nurses always spend most of their shift sitting chatting and gossiping amongst themselves, acting like patients are an inconvenience.

“I am referring to otherwise very well off families within my friendship/wider family circle who can more than afford to pay their own way.”

The vast majority of the people you think should be doing more to care for their own family members will be struggling to juggle work, childcare and quite likely living nowhere near the people who need care, and working and worrying themselves sick about how they are going to manage. Not heartlessly larging it at weddings while their granny cries for them. As I think you probably know, hence the somewhat ridiculous example.

Among the people I know it always seems to be one family member doing all the elder care and visiting while the others are "too busy"
My DS and DB/DSIL did feck all for DM they were always too busy despite none of the three of them having jobs and young children. Same with my DIL's siblings and her mother. Plus working in NHS it is often the same person visiting (and when another sibling turns up to visit it is to complain)

What @Whyhaveibeencutoutofmamsnot said.

It is almost always a singular relative carrying the load. If entire families actually mucked in, shared duties and took some interest in caring for their loved one (the way it is in most other countries!) there would be no carer crisis. It’s a cultural issue and a lack of respect more than anything.

Absolutely this.

YANBU @DickEmery

The NHS needs to be sorted out.

Our GP practice is absolutely awful. Well-known locally but there's no better option here. The only other one accepting new registrations within the catchment is equally bad. There's a good one not too far but it has very strict catchment area requirements. (the shit one accepts out of area catchments, unsurprisingly). Such a shame because it used to be very good but rapidly went downhill after two of the wonderful long-term GPs there retired.

We've had to go private several times after being fobbed off or unable to get an appointment. I also know from friends they regularly delay or fail to issue repeat prescriptions. Someone I know ended up in A&E because of that (the doctors and nurses who saw him there were shocked he'd been left without his meds).

I do wonder how many people end up in A&E because of delays to being seen or being fobbed off, long waits for hospital referrals, delayed/not issued prescriptions, or poor or outright inaccurate record keeping.

Another problem is the insufficient accountability. I know it's a very tough job, being a HCP, and there's many fantastic genuinely caring and well-trained people in the roles, but some are frankly in the wrong job and shouldn't be anywhere near patients, due to either incompetence or simply being utterly lacking in any "bedside manner" (I don't mean just being stressed or short of time due to being busy, I mean openly unpleasant and/or aggressive attitudes).

There's also natural human error - it happens and although awful for all involved, patient and HCP, it isn't malicious - but when it happens, instead of trying to remedy the problem, the NHS seems to prioritise "protecting the reputation" of the relevant hospital/GP/HCP over rectifying the mistake.

I agree. But, the demographic makeup of the UK is changing, society is getting older and old people need A LOT of healthcare and care. I don't know the solution.

Absolutely. My family is very fortunate in having private healthcare (not that having it will help if needing emergency care).

However, I don't want a society where those who can't afford private get substandard care. I want a well-funded, and well-managed NHS for everyone in the UK.

I also want a move to holistic and preventative care - where all patients regardless of income or wealth or where in the country they live, have access to timely and effective help.

By preventative, I don't mean blaming the patient for "lifestyle issues" out of their control, eg. poverty harms health (which is why holistic healthcare needs to be provided together with addressing other societal issues).

So, timely access to effective and well-funded public services including but not only healthcare, and a supportive benefits system, better and more affordable housing, and job and education opportunities.

It's all related - and failing to address NHS problems and also the other issues is a false economy. More people in poorer health and then needing more help (healthcare or other help) than they would've needed if they'd had earlier and/or better help in the first place.

As an example of NHS false economy. The 5-10 min GP appointments, often with a different GP every time. Also the "only discuss one issue per appointment" rule (which ignores that often what might appear to be unrelated or irrelevant issues actually are related and relevant).

So, no time to get properly accessed and no continuity of care. Meaning things are missed or the patient is fobbed off - and ends up more seriously unwell, often longer-term.

Called in for appointment at gynaecology at hospital 15 miles away. Have to cancel as my dad has died. and dont want a surprise hysterscopy sprung on me Rang and i was seventeenth in the queue so e mailed. Havent had s reply yet. Only got letter yesterday (Sunday) and appointment is tomorrow