To think it's not enough to teach boys not to do the "bad" things...

[NowImNotDoingIt]

But we also need to teach them to say no, to speak out, to report, to not passively stand by and watch, to come forward as a witness , to support? We need to make sure they are confident enough in themselves and their principles/attitudes that they are strong enough to do so.

I know a lot of parents say they teach their boys to treat women with respect, about consent, equality etc. Does it stop there though?

I think that's something we should be teaching our boys and girls.

Every child should be taught values. Ours were.

Collectively it should not stop there and you are right OP. However with over 50,000 recorded knife offences per annum and rising, an individual young man who intervenes has nobody watching his back. The police won't - they say do not intervene and just report it.

Reporting would definitely count and a great step forward. I don't expect anyone's child to put themselves in danger. However, there could very well be some safety in numbers if enough of them stepped in. Particularly when we talk about sexual assaults (for example), rather than knife crime.

We see so many people saying "my son would never do that", but would he do anything about it? Or just , at best, pretend it isn't happening?

I just think the conversation needs to expand .

GRAPHIC CONTENT WARNING - edited by MNHQ.

I will give a concrete example to put this into context.

When I was 14 I was sexually assaulted by a group of classmates while on residential. I was in a boy room playing cards with some of the boys. Another group of boys came in (not their room) and stuff happened. Not one of the boys in the room said or did anything. One other girl was there and she tried to intervene but her boyfriend told her to sit down and be quiet of they'll turn on her. Nice , decent , boys. Some of them the academic, quiet type. Boys of the "my kid would never do that category".In the group that came in, there were three of that type too. Those actually helped to keep me pinned down. No one did anything or said anything . They all sat and watched. No one reported it after. No one went to get a teacher. No one supported me when I did try to make noise about it.

Would your son do anything about it? If yes, great! I'm not talking to you. If not, then the conversation is not over and you need to dive in deeper, much deeper.

I think you need to add a trigger warning on the title

I was specifically mentioning the risk of escalation into knife crime. No young person today should intervene in the street in the knowledge that society does not have their back. A lot more things need to be in place than parents talking to their young boys, but yes that is the least they should do.

As an example, in our local town a few years ago a man was seen to be accosting a young woman in a shop doorway at pub closing time. The woman was crying and pleading for help and two teenage men went to assist. The violent man beat them up. The woman spat at them and told them not to interfere before heading off to find her assailant. Alcohol clearly paid a part. Today the man or the woman could pull a knife out - it is far too common.

I also recall a report many years ago of a policewoman who went to arrest someone in Bath. The situation escalated and some men who went to intervene were left unconscious and the police constable in hospital.

A lot more needs to happen from leadership - from local councils, local police forces, school heads, the government - before we expect young men and women to intervene. They would stand better chances in a well-trained infantry regiment in a war zone.

I agree and I’ve had this conversation with my 19 year old son, it needs to come from within, call it out and he has done as he had a particularly unpleasant boy in his group who would say awful things about sisters and mums , horrible little cretin!

@Fescue in situations like that I'd say the best way would be to find a safe place and call the police or report it after the fact. No one should be risking their own life, particularly not children. That's not what I'm asking for.

However, I do know that especially when involving gangs/knife/drugs reporting/coming out as a witness can also come with risks, but without it not a lot can be done. It's a tricky situation.

May I ask what happened when he spoke out? Was there any fall out?

Agreed, why is it only boys that should do the right thing? All kids should be brought up to call out shitty behaviour and to report the stuff that needs reporting.

Agree.... girls need to be doing the same!

They kind of just distanced this boy out of their group as none of them liked how he was

Why I mentioned boys and not girls.

Girls are much more less likely to be involved (as perpetrators) in sexual assaults/harassment/rape etc.

From what I've seen /heard/read, generally they already are more willing to speak out/intervene/say no.

Of course all children(regardless of sex)should be taught right from wrong and to do the right thing. A lot of the time the conversation with boys ends at "don't do it". There should be an addon of what to do instead.

I'm not accusing parents, or their boys of anything. Just encouraging a bit of reflection and whether certain chats need extended.

NowImNotDoingIt

Don't get me wrong but you don't seem to be talking about being "involved" or as "perpetrators", you seem to be talking about witnessing these acts.
Which would mean that everyone should be taught what to do next.

Fair point.