Concerned that Labour govt might fleece me in upcoming budget?

[RightOh9oo]

Aibu to be concerned that Labour government might fleece myself/family in the next budget?

If they remove the right to UK pension for all, by making it means tested....I think I'll stop working this year. I'm early 50s, does anyone else feel like this?

I'm going without so much to save in my private pension, so no holidays to speak of.

Does anyone know what is in store in the upcoming budget?

Everybody wants the government to do things but no one wants to be in the group that pays for it.

They’re not.

I agree with you there

State dependency is high and the tax burden is going up under Labour

Well for a start it would discourage people from paying into private pensions and generally saving for their retirement.

How would means testing a universal benefit affect private pensions, please @PandoraSox ?

I agree completely with means testing the winter fuel allowance and with the idea of means testing the state pension. Radical steps have to be taken to deal with the national’s dire financial situation. The idea that pensioners are broadly living in penury is not true. Some are. Many aren’t. The public funds given to the later could go towards boosting the pensions of the former.

My parents (85 mum and 78 stepdad) really do give theirs to charity, mum anyway. Donkey sanctuary in Devon (where she also sticks a tenner in the box every time they go) and cats protection. Dad spends his on wine, mostly. He has a very good private pension. Mum has squirrelled away over £100K over the years and they are in the process of selling their second home because they can no longer travel there. That will net them around £400k after CGT. I’m delighted for them, I want them to be comfortable in old age. These are very average people of their age. He was a sales manager on a mid level income. She was a draughtswoman but hasn’t worked for 30 years. She couldn’t handle the transition to CAD and stopped working. Just happened to be lucky to live when they did.

It does make me internally roll my eyes when they bemoan the loss of the WFA, though 😁

Also agree with @Nogaxeh the debt is highest since 1960s

Servicing that will cost a fare chunk of our taxes

Truss borrowed to fund tax cuts for high earners, which is crazy, if the markets think investment gives a good return, they will accept more borrowing.

France's debt to GDP is 110, down from 120 in 2020 (due to Covid) USA is even higher, so of course we could borrow.

Everything i heard pre GE was that the UK was in a dire situation, from the IFS, Tories and Labour, its just that Labour now say its even worse

Fair - can't edit

@candycrush02 that is a big issue for France

www.nytimes.com/2024/09/18/business/france-debt-deficit-prime-minister-macron.html#:~:text=France's%20debt%20load%20has%20ballooned,the%20bloc's%203%20percent%20limit.

France’s new prime minister said Wednesday that the country’s finances were in critical condition, as signs mounted that the government faced an uphill battle to control a ballooning debt and deficit that have become among the highest in Europe.
“I am discovering that the country’s budgetary situation is very serious,” said Michel Barnier,,_

Truss was a disaster no doubt however I also think there were other things at play there - power plays. She’s not wrong in what she said about higher earners. Many economists have warned successive chancellors. Higher earners are opting out of the work place as the tax and penalties are not worth it. They are voting with their feet and working part time. The very people you need paying tax and working at full capacity. Time to start looking at other options rather than people who have a good career.

These are very average people of their age.

They’re really not. Very average people of their age don’t have two homes or can afford to donate the entirety of their state pension to a donkey sanctuary. Don’t kid yourself that your extremely wealthy parents are typical.

i'm not advocating that we push debt to France's levels nor that we cut pension age to 64 or have a tax burden like France has.

But a small increase in borrowing is possible without causing a Truss type disaster.

Lets face it, tax rises can stifle economic growth, especially so in a relatively low wage economy like ours, equally unaffordable tax cuts, like the NI ones are bad policy.

I think the poster meant they give their wfp to the donkey sanctuary not the whole of their state pension?

@candycrush02 I agree with you about tax rises stifling growth but I think pushing debt up in last couple of months will make things harder

Pretty much the only way out is growth and higher taxes will hamper that as you say

They didn’t say that.

BIossomtoes · Today 11:09

These are very average people of their age.
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They’re really not. Very average people of their age don’t have two homes or can afford to donate the entirety of their state pension to a donkey sanctuary. Don’t kid yourself that your extremely wealthy parents are typical”

They aren’t and never have been extremely wealthy. Dad’s income was max around the £60k mark when he worked, retired 8 years ago. Mum didn’t work from 50. They were lucky to acquire two properties for £150 and £120 K which are now worth £600 and £450. K respectively.
Many people we know of their age group are in very similar positions. They live in the county town in Somerset and are surrounded by similarly aged couples in detached houses.
Extremely wealthy they are not.

Mum doesn't give her pension to her charities, she donates her WFA.

Extremely wealthy they are not.

They have more than £1m in assets - that is pretty wealthy in my book.

I don’t know any pensioners in that position. You clearly move in very different circles.

Then you know an enclave of extremely wealthy pensioners. How can you possibly say that a couple with over £1 million in property assets alone and six figure savings are typical? You really do need to get out more if you honestly believe that.

They are fairly typical of a certain type of upper working class/middle class person from a generation that has done well out of the housing boom and decent pensions.

This is just cementing my view that second properties need to be taxed much more than they currently are. Nobody needs more than one house to live in.

Tbf, you only have to read the posts on Mumsnet where a poster is shocked that they won’t get an income of £30K for 30 years+ from their £100K pension pot to know that the majority of people seem to expect far more than they ever put in. It’s the same with state pension.

Ginmonkeyagain · Today 11:25
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They are fairly typical of a certain type of upper working class/middle class person from a generation that has done well out of the housing boom and decent pensions.”

This.
I get out a great deal, thank you, Blossomtoes. We live in the NW in a pricey coastal town. we are 60 and 65 and are surrounded by similarly aged couples in detached houses and bungalows. Their properties are worth a lot of money now, as is ours.
They are not wealthy, they own properties now worth a lot of money through sheer luck. Right place, right time.
They cannot spend their asset, though. If they sell it, they have to find somewhere else to live.
There are many hundreds of thousands of pensioners up and down the nation who benefitted from properties booms and final salary pensions, which mostly no longer exist.

@Aduvetday
Higher earners are opting out of the work place as the tax and penalties are not worth it. They are voting with their feet and working part time.

Would they really work more if taxed less? Is the incentive purely financial, or is it more thay they have reached a stage where they can earn enough part time to spend time doing other things? More of a work/life balance. In which case, lower taxes would mean they could work even less...

Putting · Today 11:27

This is just cementing my view that second properties need to be taxed much more than they currently are. Nobody needs more than one house to live in.”

Completely agree. We’re currently between places ourselves. Completed on our downsize flat, have yet to on our family house.

Our flat is in Scotland and paid nearly £20k second home tax on a £250k home and were happy to do so. Same ought to be introduced in England. If we sell and move in as permanent home within 18 months we get a large portion of it back.

Coming from Cornwall, we’re well aware of the scourge of the second home.

There are many hundreds of thousands of pensioners up and down the nation who benefitted from properties booms and final salary pensions, which mostly no longer exist.

I know that and they’re wealthy, regardless of your protestations. Equally they’re not typical. A third of pensioners have net wealth of £1 million including property and pension pots, that means two thirds don’t. Your parents have over a million in property assets alone before you take into account pension pots and savings. The thing you’re right about is that they’re lucky. Very lucky indeed.

I agree Blossomtoes. They are very lucky indeed. My point is that in their age group they are not unusual and I really don’t believe people should receive universal benefits simply because they’re old.
More should go to those who need it. I’m sure there are young families who would need a fuel allowance far more than my parents and many of their peers do.
I believe completely in the welfare state. I also believe every benefit ought to be means tested and more accurately targetted .