What do you think is a ‘good’ income these days for…

[Greenlp]

Two adults and one child?

I am constantly being told that our income is very good (from online sources, media etc, small talk with friends who don’t know our earnings but make general comments on income/standard of living). I feel like our income is not good enough for a good standard of living. We constantly have to cut back.

Even in London, the house prices can vary a lot. median price of a home is 500k in London (for a 2 bed) which tbh 2 median earners in London on 50k each could probably afford esp if both lived at home or had a gift from parents (common amongst second generation Londoners including those from modest backgrounds). But yet there are parts of London where 500k would only get you a 1 bed flat.

I think my ex manager (she is 40 or early 40s with a young child) bought her 2 up 2 down in Chelmsford for 250k 12 years ago and she extended the loft and the back so now has 4 bedrooms. If i look on rightmove now, her house (with the extensions) would be worth 600k so a 28 year old would have to earn so much more to buy the house she did when she was that age (most of the houses on that street have been extended, probably by London commuters and the cost of extensions has also doubled).

In fact when i was looking in 2019 in the commuter towns, the price of 2 bed terraces was so high that i was better off staying in London in a flat of the same size as it was cheaper when you accounted for commuting fares. As the value of those houses had skyrocketed but london flats stayed pretty stagnant. However, there are many people who are just perhaps 5 years older than me who would have been able to buy the houses at the 'cheaper price'.

Yes definitely, age and extent of family help is such a big thing. Even a few grand luckily timed can make a huge difference later on.

Private schools are not essential for a "good standard of living".

This depends on where you live.

Since Direct Grants ended many schools can only offer bursaries to a very limited number of pupils. In our west London area the school places themselves were ultra-competitive and the bursaries were limited to less than five per school year. At our school only a child who did very well in the entrance exams would be considered for a bursary, and it would be taken into account whether or not they had been privately tutored to get a better mark. So a child who got the same mark as another would be given preference if they had not been tutored, both for a place and for a bursary.
Under the Direct Grant system any child who got a place at the school could be considered on income grounds.
Obviously some private schools are very well endowed however and could offer bursaries to far more children, you'd have to do your research beforehand.
I should add that our DC's GM helped us to pay her secondary school fees, we wouldn't have considered sending DC to a private school without this as we knew that we simply didn't earn enough to manage the fees comfortably, though we did have a "good" income.

As if that isn’t an entirely individual judgement, the same as what constitutes a ‘good standard of living’ as a whole. Different people have vastly different ideas as to that, and they don’t need to match.

The Joseph rowntree foundation have done lots of work and research into minimum income standards. The amount that someone needs to be able to live a normal life and participate in society, not a luxury life but the minimum requirement for an ok standard of living.

So definitely not private school, private health care or luxurious life.

It's £28,000 for a single person and just over £69,000 for two adults and two children.

So I'd say that would be the recognised minimum income for a normal life

The row tree foundation say 50k for a couple with 2 kids in 2023 and jumped to nearly 70k in 2024 - that suggests a serious reworking because inflation wasn't that high !

70k is two parents on average wage

70k for 2 parents still seems incredibly low to me. We are a married couple with no kids and there is no way we could live on that. Of course some of our costs are higher due to our wages, things like mortgage etc and we take nice holidays regularly, but there are some costs that would remain the same regardless of what we made.

Either way, I don't think that's a liveable wage in the UK but I guess if that is what the experts say it is what it is. I'm just glad we don't have to live on that much

I think they should do a "post housing costs " or regions version as in some areas a basic home might cost 400 a month rent or mortgage , and the same home 1600 elsewhere

We would be loving life on £70k. We would be comfortable and with no worries!

Surely that information is easy to see just by looking on Rightmove? Not sure why "they" (whoever that may be) needs to research and produce statistics for some data already readily available.

This is incredibly relative - all of it. I posted before but am now thinking of downsizing and leaving my role for one that pays ⅔ of it part time. I couldn't think of doing that in my current location, but in a smaller property with either a tiny mortgage if I buy a house, or no mortgage and a management fee if I buy an apartment, I'll be absolutely in the same position I am in now.

I think the school fees plus you mortgage are a lot OP. Not judging though.

Perhaps focus on reducing mortgage a little every year, or seeing if you can increase your income through building your career.

It you might still feel the same at the end of this exercise. As money in, and money out, it does get a bit drab, life. So perhaps think about what brings you joy, within your life? And how you can build this?

https://www.minimumincome.org.uk/london/

I just did the calculator based on my own costs- council tax of £144 per month, mortgage of 1282 per month, gas and electricity of £140 per month, as a couple living in outer london. It says as a bare minimum we would require 35k each and I guess there would be no savings.

the budget doesn't include holidays , just £128 per week allocated to social/cultural activities which wouldn't be enough for us as we eat out at least once weekly lol so that's half of our entire socialising budget. I guess if you met a friend once a fortnight it could work.

Re travel, I live in z3 and spend around £150 per month commuting. Also take a weekly uber to visit his grandpa who lives very far away in suburban London so that would have busted the travel budget but i guess we could do without that. But still think it is on the low side for a couple, we could only meet it as DH cycles to work (but his bicycle is £800 and cost £300 to service this month!).

I would say for a couple to be comfortable and save they would need minimum £100k per year, assuming they had our mortgage.

But surely that£1700 a month could pay for you to live in an area with better schools?

Yes, I think that's a much more common way to do it. The benefit of buying a better education via mortgage is that you build up an asset at the same time.

Between us we earned £28k last year (inc our top up from tax credits) and have two kids. We've paid off our mortgage though. It wasn't enough to go on holiday last year, but I think I'd feel rich if we earned £40k between us. Earning that little wasn't ideal (it was due to some caring issues that have been resolved) but we survived without getting into savings. The lack of housing costs has made a huge difference to us though. To me anyone earning £30k or more I imagine must be able to live comfortably.

Our take home is about £4.5k and we have a £970 mortgage. We have one car loan and DS nursery fees £300 pm. Aside from all the usual council tax (£400pm), insurances, food, fuel etc. we save about £1000-£1200 each month between us. Those school fees would mean we would be scraping through the month. So I do think you’ve given yourself big commitment there

North of 100k, but it's all relative really.

I think even with ft childcare you could afford a bit of a life on that.

So are you saying that most people don't have a life ?

Because most families have far less than 100k but they probably think they do have a life even when the children are very young

Well technically they are alive so of course they have a 'life'

Is it the life that they want though

Well that's the nub isn't it

For many people on that income they will have the life they want - a life with lots of fun and joy

For others , nothing will ever be enough. They don't have the skills to enjoy life, they decide that's because they don't have enough money m to buy stuff and experience, will be consumed by jealousy

There’s a big gap between wanting more than that income, and nothing ever being enough.

Someone considering less than a £100k not to be good for them because it wouldn’t afford them the lifestyle they want doesn’t mean that nothing will ever be enough, or that they lack the skills to enjoy life.

I receive single allowance and for 4 children. It’s not breaking the law because it is deemed ok in education to pay term time only (not as if I can work in the holidays)