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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

ASD child reduced timetable primary school

87 replies

Redwineandcheeseplease01 · 20/09/2024 09:53

My ASD diagnosed son has just started reception at a mainstream primary. Has an EHCP and 1:1 due to impulsivity and lack of danger awareness. Since he started 2 weeks ago he has been on a graduated start, so he spends a couple of hours in school and then I pick him up. The other children are obviously in all day.
just wondering if any other parents of ASD diagnosed children who have also started school in this way would be able to please
advise on how long this approach usually lasts? I have had to leave my job to facilitate this and can’t afford for the household to be
down an income for long!

OP posts:
Zanatdy · 20/09/2024 19:40

This happened to my friend last year, her DD started and was on reduced timetable until the March. It increased gradually and was really hard as she worked full time

Morph22010 · 20/09/2024 22:46

MoreIcedLattePlease · 20/09/2024 18:22

I mean this in the kindest way as both a parent of a child with an EHCP and a teacher: there is NO money in schools. Your son will always have to share his 1:1 with other children in the class, primarily because it's actually not best practice to provide 1:1 support, the research is clear on this. You also have no idea how those parents have fought for their children and potentially lost.

Unless you fight even harder for specialist, this is the reality you are going to have throughout school. If you truly think that's not right for your DS, start making noise about special now. Because it will take you years to get there if he is verbal and academically able to 'cope' in mainstream.

I'd also bear in mind that working full time with a child who has significant SEND needs in mainstream school is nigh on impossible. You might need a contingency.

Children with EHCPs can still be excluded both fixed term and permanently, so the 'school have to do x' doesn't work I'm afraid. Yes, they do have to follow the SEN code of practice, and they do have to follow procedures. But they know the loopholes and they will use them if they think they want/need to.
Likewise "the school need to say they can't meet needs" is shite. They DO say this. Frequently. LEAs then force it, and this is what happens. There isn't the staff out there to meet as much need as there is. There aren't enough specialist spaces to meet the need. This the real reason attendance is poor and home education on the rise. The system is broken - for all involved.

Show quote history

the reseach about 1-1 not being best practise is misrepresented so as not to provide 1-1 to children who really need it to save costs. Yes in certain circumstances children can perform better without a 1-1 as 1-1 doesn’t promote independence, but if a child needs 1-1 or the alternative is only going to school an hour an day then they aren’t really the children from the research that are going to do better without a 1-1 as the real life alternative is not being in school at all so no independence is promoted as they aren’t even there.

its the same shite as the arguement that is also regularly given by la’s to force children who need specialist into mainstream. Research says children in mainstream performs better than children in specialist. Well of course they do as most of the children who can attend mainstream don’t have Sen for a start and the ones thst do have Sen tend to be the sort that can actually attend mainstream and the school can manage them/ they can manage the school. If the child and manage in mainstream they aren’t going to do better in mainstream no matter what the la says research says, same with 1-1.

MoreIcedLattePlease · 21/09/2024 14:56

CrossUniStudent · 20/09/2024 19:34

@MoreIcedLattePlease

Firstly, everything @EndlessLight said 👏

What other parents have fought for and lost is not OPs responsibility.

It doesn't take years to get specialist. We got one in less than a year, we used the Special Educational Needs and Disability Tribunal to do so. Many parents do. We did this twice. You just need to be clued up on your child's legal rights and enforce them.

Lots of send CYP are verbal and academic, as are mine, this is irrelevant as it's literally zero indication of a child's actual Sen needs.

Clearly school don't think he can cope as they've got him on a part time timetable.

Why and how would a well behaved Sen child get excluded? Exclusions can only be for behaviour and then all possible support and RAs would need to be in place otherwise that could also be deemed unlawful and discriminatory.

There are no loopholes to get out of following the law.

Tell me you don't work in education, without telling me you don't work in education.

EndlessLight · 21/09/2024 15:20

Working in education doesn’t always mean someone understands SEN law, sadly. Many schools, LAs and staff think nothing of acting unlawfully either wilfully or through ignorance of the law. Just look at some of the examples on this thread where posters think it is acceptable for legally mandated provision to not be provided and for schools to unlawfully, informally exclude.

stichguru · 21/09/2024 20:01

EndlessLight · 20/09/2024 17:45

If you read the thread, OP’s DS has an EHCP.

Look at the section of the admissions code I quoted in a pp. The school cannot refuse to allow OP’s DS to attend full time. Until OP’s DS is CSA, it is her decision whether he attends part time or not. It is not the school’s decision.

They absolutely can. The EHCP will detail the child's needs and allocate a certain amount of special local authority funding to the school specifically to meet those needs. This money can ONLY be used to meet the child's needs, as set out in the EHCP.

However, the school can still refuse to meet the child's needs, if they can demonstrate that the funding, or other provision granted by the LA through the EHCP is not sufficient to enable them to meet the child's needs.

For example:

  1. The school claims that the child needed a full time 1:1 assistant.
  2. The panel agrees and funds a full time 1:1 assistant.
  3. The school cannot say that actually they need another general reception TA so they will only accept this child part-time to free up money for that.

However if

  1. The school claims that the child needed a full time 1:1 assistant.
  2. The panel decides that the child doesn't need 1:1 all the time and only funds them for some lessons.

The school CAN say they will have the child there for the 1:1 funded hours, but they will not have him there more than that.

Now LA could come back and say well yes in the 1:1 funded hours you can meet X need by doing A, but actually B would meet X need too, and you could do B without him having 1:1, so you CAN have him all the time. The school would then have to either accept that, and use B outside the funded hours, or they could contest it and put together argument about how B wasn't possible OR wouldn't meet the child's needs.

EndlessLight · 21/09/2024 20:05

@stichguru the school cannot informally exclude. That is unlawful.

The school CAN say they will have the child there for the 1:1 funded hours, but they will not have him there more than that.

This would be an unlawful informal exclusion.

The school could look at judicial review proceedings if they object to the EHCP, but they cannot unlawfully, informally exclude while ever they are named in I.

stichguru · 21/09/2024 20:42

EndlessLight · 21/09/2024 20:05

@stichguru the school cannot informally exclude. That is unlawful.

The school CAN say they will have the child there for the 1:1 funded hours, but they will not have him there more than that.

This would be an unlawful informal exclusion.

The school could look at judicial review proceedings if they object to the EHCP, but they cannot unlawfully, informally exclude while ever they are named in I.

They are NOT objecting to the EHCP though, they are objecting to being asked to provide what is on it without enough resources to do so. It is ONLY unlawful if they are saying they can meet the child's when they can, if they can prove they can't then they CAN refuse to have the child, or say they will only have them with certain help to do so. If this was not the case, then any child with an EHCP could go to ANY school or college they/their parents wanted, and the school would have to adapt to them, regardless of what those adaptions were.

If what you're saying right, then suppose my child has an EHCP for PMLD - he needs access to a physio/hydro/sensory room/changing room with shower. From what you are saying the school would either have to PROOVE he didn't need any of those things, or have to build them, so he could attend.

EndlessLight · 21/09/2024 20:51

Unlawful, informal exclusions are always unlawful.

Objecting to the EHCP includes when there is not sufficient funding to deliver the SEP detailed, specified and quantified.

The school CAN say they will have the child there for the 1:1 funded hours, but they will not have him there more than that.

This is objecting to the EHCP. The school would be objecting to being named when the EHCP does not include sufficient provision (in their opinion).

If this was not the case, then any child with an EHCP could go to ANY school or college they/their parents wanted, and the school would have to adapt to them, regardless of what those adaptions were.

OP’s situation is a different situation because the school is already named. The school must admit (they have) and cannot unlawfully informally exclude. However, LAs and SENDIST do not need the school’s agreement in order to be named unless the school is wholly independent. They can be named even if they object.

If what you're saying right, then suppose my child has an EHCP for PMLD - he needs access to a physio/hydro/sensory room/changing room with shower. From what you are saying the school would either have to PROOVE he didn't need any of those things, or have to build them, so he could attend.

I am saying if the EHCP for a child with PMLD named a MS, the MS would still have to admit and cannot unlawfully exclude.

It is irrelevant if the school think detailed, specified and quantified provision isn’t required. It must be provided and can be enforced. The school/LA not providing it leaves the LA and school open to legal action.

orangeleopard · 21/09/2024 20:55

My son is the exact same. The school are awful and I’m regretting putting him in the school he’s in. He has additional needs (99% likely to be autism and adhd, but waiting for a diagnosis). He attended the nursery and only was able to do half days as he couldn’t manage full - I accepted that but now he’s in reception it’s still the same. I’ve been told they can legally do this until their 5th birthday before outside services require proof from the school as to why they’re doing it. My son’s birthday is in a couple of months, so I’m hoping it’ll motivate them in comparison to a child who’s birthday is not until the end of the year. But yeah, he’s the one child who’s only doing half days in reception, and the one child that they don’t seem to want to have him in school. The school are awful and dragging their feet with sending off for funding despite knowing his needs for over a year. He keeps attacking himself and others and trying to escape (among other meltdowns etc) and the school see him as a burden rather than managing ways to ‘cope’ with him. I’m really frustrated as he’s got to go in full time eventually and they say he can’t manage it - but it’s a legal requirement so what actually is getting done? I have the family support agency on my side fighting for my son too, but even then they’re still not giving him the support he deserves

EndlessLight · 21/09/2024 20:58

I accepted that but now he’s in reception it’s still the same. I’ve been told they can legally do this until their 5th birthday

@orangeleopard this isn’t true. You have the right to send DS full time now unless the school formally suspends/permanently excludes (which you would be able to challenge). See the section of admissions code I quoted in a pp.

Hankunamatata · 21/09/2024 21:25

Go and talk to the school about increasing the timetable quicker of moving to full days.

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