Family member awarded enhanced pip - AIBU?

[Orangecrocs]

My family member has just been awarded enhanced pip in both living and mobility components.
Shes told me that she’s twisted the truth during the assessment and told the assessor that she has lots of pain and can’t really walk at all, but she walks all the time as I see her out and about - we live in a hilly area. I know people who are in a wheelchair and struggle to get enhanced rate - so I really don’t understand how she’s managed this.
I know people will say mind your own business but she’s told me she’s actually lied to them.

The Motability Scheme is basically a charity. It’s not paid for by taxpayers.

“Who owns Motability? Motability is an independent charity that runs the mobility scheme for disabled people.1 Nov 2022”

”Motability is an independent charity that runs the mobility scheme for disabled people. It does not cost the government money, it is instead funded by disabled people who choose to spend their mobility allowance to pay for the cost of their car lease.
The charity publishes its own accounts and is run by a team of directors and staff who get paid by the charity to do the work. “

People receiving the enhanced mobility component can either lease a car, and have the money taken by the DWP, and sent to Motability, or they can just have the cash for cabs etc.

The amount of the mobility component will be the same, so taxpayers would save nothing from scrapping the scheme.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/everything-you-ever-needed-to-know-about-motability/273895

The hate is fuelled by spite - pure and simple. People clearly do not understand the PIP system and how the motability scheme works, so their opinions are irrelevant. Thankfully, most people with any sense know that forcing disabled people to buy their own cars would not save the tax payer anymore money. They are just envious of the perception that people who they think dont work drive ‘’free cars’’ that others can’t afford etc.

There will always be people gaming the system, always. It’s not right but it can never be fully stopped, and it has to be said that if people are feeling the need to fraudulently claim benefits in order to live rather than earning money in a more productive way, it does make you wonder why - because most people WANT to earn their money, they want a purpose and meaning in life, it’s literally built into the human psyche.

You have to accept some loss in life for greater gain. It’s not the majority’s fault some people cheat the system. It’s just something that happens, and again, there are far more who are eligible but denied it than there are who are fraudulent.

All these fraudulent claimants yet everyone that knows one never seems to report them.

,Yes, I think the motability scheme needs scrapping. Personally I suspect it will be the first thing to go as part of a wider PIP review and not a second too soon

As pp pointed out, Motability is not run by the government, it is a charity.

Disabled people lease the cars, they don't own them. At the end of three years the cars are given back to motability which sells them on.

The car dealers who participate in the scheme make a profit, so the scheme contributes to the economy.

Do you think disabled people shouldn't be allowed to lease new cars in the same way non-disabled people can?@TouringTheTearooms? Perhaps you'd prefer we went back to the days of the three wheelers.

Sorry @Boomer55 I didn't mean to quote you. I am so cross I wasn't paying enough attention!

Source of what?

The mobility component of PIP continuing after state pension age needs reviewing too. How is it fair that someone who is awarded PIP mobility just before turning pension age can keep that component potentially until they die with light touch ten year reviews , yet someone suffering paralysis form a severe stroke a few days after turning state pension age can't get any mobility component on Attendance Allowance, can't get a mobility car etc yet could be just 66 years of age ? This is one of the questions I most frequently get asked by older people. Why can't I get a mobility car when my neighbour down the road who is the same age as me and similar level of disability can ? Why can one person get £75 a week more in mobility payment or a mobility car and the other can't? they both have the same costs and living with the same level of disability. In my advice team we see a surge of people just below pension age putting in PIP claims for this very reason. It's potentially a massive difference.

I know a woman who has full PIP for fibromyalgia. She needs care from her daughters, can’t walk far, can’t shop, needs help with washing and dressing.

The reality is she managed to cook multiple large family meals for her adult daughters and grandchildren, drinks all day in the local pubs every weekend, has at least two boozy foreign holidays every year, looks after her toddler grandchildren for her daughter to work. Goes to every event / party.

Her daughters help themselves to her opiate based medication as she doesn’t appear to need it.

It’s a complete abuse of the system - she was able to fully stop work at 50 due to these payments. Meanwhile the rest of us honest people keep working to keep these people on their sofas and in the pub.

Far better controls are needed and IMO the system that is the motability car scheme needs totally scrapping and replacing with a limited scheme which provides specially adapted cars ONLY (for wheelchair users/amputees etc).

Another poster, who I am glad to say does not have any influence on how this scheme is run. So people who are not any of the above should not benefit from motability? Those people with walking issues that do not require a wheelchair, or those that just walk with a stick sometimes, have you considered them in your rush to give us your rather short sighted opinion?

I did highlight the fact that l was talking specifically about the physical assessment for PIP mobility. There are different eligibility criteria for mental health and cognitive disorders, and both the standard and enhanced rates can be awarded on a combination of the two - and needing to be accompanied is considered for physical disabilities too.

It should be noted that an award of either the standard or enhanced rate of PIP mobility with at least 8 points scored from the moving around descriptors will qualify the claimant automatically for a blue badge. However, automatic entitlement to a blue badge is only possible solely on mental health/cognitive grounds by scoring 10 points from descriptor E in the Planning and following a journey category. People who do not satisfy these conditions may qualify for a blue badge under their Local Authority’s own rules, but eligibility is not automatic by way of a PIP award.

As with all the descriptors there is the consideration of the ability to mobilise safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly (as often as is reasonably required throughout the day) and in a reasonable time period - no more than twice as long as a person without the condition.

You are incorrect about the consideration of the ability to use public transport or not. This is not a factor in deciding PIP mobility, and neither is access to or reliability of public transport. And only those people who receive the enhanced rate of mobility component are eligible to join the motability scheme - either solely via the moving around or planning and following a journey descriptors , or a combination of the two.

And l’m not sure what you mean by ‘Motability elements are awarded to offset extra costs associated with travelling with a disability not to buy a car because you cant walk far.’ Firstly there is no ‘motability element’ to PIP. Claimants in receipt of the enhanced rate of PIP mobility are free to choose how they spend it, and very often a car is the most convenient and economical way for them to get around, regardless of whether their condition is one of mental or physical health - so having limited mobility absolutely can be a factor. And it’s not possible to buy a car on the motability scheme - vehicles are leased for a period of three, or in some circumstances five years and have to be handed back at the end of the lease period, and a new lease taken out if you want to stay mobile.

You realise disabled people have good and bad days, right? Some days I can cook meals, other days it’s too dangerous as I’m wobbly and in pain and it’s a risk around hot food. Some days I can walk a fair distance but then can’t move for a day or two because of muscle spasms. What do people actually want? No help until we’re all literally in a corner rocking, needing our arses wiped and being tube fed? Are we not allowed any semblance of life?

She will not have been able to stop work just based on PIP payments, and your ‘’I know a woman’’ statement suggests you don’t know her all that intimately to know the ins and outs of her life. You sound more like a curtain twitcher. People need to learn to mind their own business a bit more

The amount of people who "know a woman who...." never ceases to amaze me. These people who are gaming the PIP always seem to be a fan of extreme sports as well.🏂

Agree. This kind of attitude makes me so angry. Many times, as you say, PIP will have been awarded for a fluctuating condition, and as long as the condition affects you for at least 50% of the time you qualify. And what people don’t seem to realise is that specific activities are assessed. So if this person has not scored any points for being unable to prepare and cook then they’ve been assessed as having no problem with it - so she’s not doing anything wrong. Just because you can’t do some things doesn’t mean you’re completely incapable and PIP is awarded at different levels, depending on the level of impairment.

l’ve said it before and it’s worth repeating. Unless you live with a person 24 hours a day, are familiar with every aspect of their condition (with the medical knowledge to understand how it affects them), have access to their medical records and know every aspect of their claim for benefit and the grounds on which they have been awarded that benefit, then you know nothing, and you are in no position to judge.

The number of posters commenting from a position of utter ignorance about what PIP is intended for and how people can qualify, and yet feel qualified to judge whether someone is ‘cheating’ or not just by looking at them is astounding. Disabled people are not there to provide you with your ‘gotcha’ moment. They are human beings, and in very many cases they and their families are coping with conditions that would bring most of us to our knees. Instead of focusing on the extra benefits provided and seething with envy (as some posters on this thread very clearly are) why don’t you focus on why the extra funding is there. Because l guarantee all you able bodied nosy parkers out there that if you had some of the disabilities and health conditions l’ve witnessed in my years as a disability outreach worker, the extra funding would be your last consideration.

This is probably the most nakedly benefit bashing thread l’ve seen on MN, and that’s an achievement in itself.

For ‘l know a woman’ read ‘l know nothing - l’m just a curtain twitching nosy parker waiting for my ‘gotcha’ moment because l’m not capable of reasoned thinking’.

I said those that don't and you will find actually that a few don't

Evidently a significant number of people are seriously short on cash.

I cannot imagine what it must be like putting themselves through the described indignities for such a small amount of funding.

Said with goodwill and peace and ❤️

Correct!

'@Kitkat1523

I’m not saying it’s easy….I’m saying the way the system is currently set up ….no one ‘has’ to provide medical evidence …….it is your choice to……of course it is going to be in your favour…..but some people who apply have no medical evidence as they have no diagnosis as such……especially with mental health'

More nonsense.

I have had mental health issues since my teens. Plenty of evidence of it in my medical notes: from referrals to NHS counselling, time spent under the care of the crisis team, letter from rape crisis service who looked after me after an assault and documented suicidal plans. Not to mention details of the medication I have to take. Clearly diagnosed with PTSD and depression.

I am so sick and tired of people who think that mental health issues are made up....

I will say this again: nobody will get awarded PIP without medical evidence.

So many spiteful comments on this thread. And just because they can't stand the idea that someone could receive some financial support for a health condition. It is truly appalling.

And I work by the way. I always have. PIP helps me stay in employment.

Let’s just go down this rabbit hole for a moment. Quite apart from the astounding lack of understanding of disability this poster displays, there are a couple of things they haven’t factored in.

Firstly Motability is accessible only to those claimants who have secured the advanced rate of mobility allowance. This is only awarded to the most severely disabled. So either they are suggesting that awards should be lower for certain disabilities - in which case the basis of the whole assessment would change because currently PIP doesn’t look at the disability itself, but rather considers the effect of it. Or she’s suggesting that even those with the most severe disabilities shouldn’t be allowed to join a scheme for which they are eligible by way of benefit award. Either way it’s outrageously ableist and discriminatory.

Secindly, Motability itself is a large organisation - a charity. And it’s large customer base and unique contribution to the disabled gives it very significant buying power - it has a significant effect on the UK motor industry and works with most manufacturers, securing vehicles and selling them on at the end of the lease period. Suddenly severely limiting eligibility on the basis she suggests would almost certainly render the scheme unviable, and then everyone would lose. But then l think some posters would be only too happy with that judging by some of the most ignorant input on the thread. They just can’t handle the idea that severely disabled people’s lives may be enhanced by the scheme, so the notion that these are ‘free cars’ issued like sweeties at the tax payers’ expense prevails. It’s nonsense.

Goodwill and peace my arse !! A heart emoji doesn’t make it any less offensive or ableist.

Hey ….no spite here…..I’m glad you getting it…..I don’t see any issues with people with mental health getting pip…..what I am saying is the system is currently set up that you don’t NEED ‘medical evidence’ to apply…..it’s not compulsory…..and no….most people won’t be sucessful ….granted…..but lots of people with mental health issues do apply without evidence as they simply don’t have it…..and they are relying on a comprehensively completed pip document and evidence which is non medical……you only have to frequent the scope forums to know this

anyway it will all be changing in the autumn budget ……talk of it being a diagnosis based benefit….so we will wait and see

No, incorrect. You need medical evidence, you don’t need a specific diagnosis. Reason being is that someone may not have been officially diagnosed, but can have significant impairments. Secondly, a diagnosis is not required because it matters not about the condition in itself, but how it effects the person. Two people can have the same diagnoses but present with symptoms that can vary quite widely. You need a lot of evidence.

Someone posted a few pages back about getting enhanced mobility with no medical evidence

And that person who is a complete and utter randomer posting anonymously on mumsnet has to be telling the truth as opposed to whipping up a storm how, exactly?

I’ll try and find the post 😊

Here