To expect a pay rise...

[TaupePanda]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone had experienced having to sort out pay at a company moving to a 4 day week (at 100% pay).

It looks like my company might but I already work a shorter week. There has been no mention of when there would be any sort of conversation with those already not working a 5 day week.

And, a friend of mine has had a big problem in another company (much bigger than where I work), whereby she negotiated her salary up a little to be more than 4/5s of a 5 day pay when she first started. eg she got £90k for 4 days instead of £80k, when the f-t salary was £100k. They essentially said she bagged herself a pay rise at the start and that her 100% salary was the one she signed up for (she left, in case you were wondering).

That seems extremely unfair to me and I would kick up an enormous storm if this did happen to me. However, it isn't tried and tested and there isn't really a precedent for it. No one seems to be discussing it - instead, there is a real focus on how great it will be for others to work shorter weeks.

While I don't disagree that a 4 day week is really healthy for everyone, shouldn't my salary go up too, to reflect that others are working less for the same pay? I feel like I am entirely in the right, but I did discuss it with friends and some people thought I was being greedy.

But, I am right, right? Or AIBU?

Are they condensing hours, or working less hours for the same pay? I'd assume they should offer you less hours at the same % drop for the same pay as you're on too. Unless you wanted to go full time and do the hours that they are doing for the full pay.

If everyone else is going to 4 days a week for 100% pay, I would expect those currently working 4 days a week at 80% salary to also go up to 100%
Otherwise it is unfair to those already on 4 days a week for less than full salary

It depends what the deal is. If you are still wanting to do 9-5 Monday -Thursday but they are bringing in 9-9 mon- thurs (or whatever it would be) then your pay should remain the same. If they are not condensing hours and everyone will do 4x 7hour days then yes you should have your wage increased.
my feeling is that they’ll be doing condensed hours

If you're sure its coming, then put in a request to go up to 5 days now. Then there's no argument!

You will either be offered to reduce your hours for the same salary or pay rise if maintaining the same hours.

Anything else isn't be treated equally.

Absolutely I’d expect a pay rise.
i think you’re saying you work 80% and get paid 80% but they’re going to move FT people to 80% and pay them 100%?

Depends on the workload does someone else do part of your job on 5 the day. As presume the rest will have to do a weeks work in 4 days whereas you might only be still doing 4 days work in 4 days.

So you’re doing 80% of the work in 80% of the time? Or 100% work in 80% of the time?

You definitely need clarification of what is happening regarding hours, days and pay.

Will they be doing the same hours as they are now over four days?

Is it not compressed hours into 4 days?

In general I don't understand companies moving to a 4 day week when it's not compressed hours. How does 5 days work suddenly magically fit to 4 days? I couldn't get my work done in 4 days within the same hours.

I would expect that you'll get offered a pro rata reduction in hours on your current pay. I don't think they would be under any obligation to offer you a full time contract, but you could ask to go full time and see what they say?

There have been studies done. The results obviously vary by companies taking part in the trials but a lot of them have been very positive. In a lot of cases people are more motivated and do get the same amount of work done in less time, or even more in some cases.
I've also worked in places where a lot of people do very little everyday and could easily fit the work into less time. Obviously that's not true of everyone everywhere though

They could have also reviewed systems and processes to make them more efficient and/or stopped doing anything that's not beneficial to the business, eg if they provide a chargeable service or product, increased rates and/or dropped clients who take a lot of time but don't bring a lot of income.

You'll have heard of 'work expands to fill the time available'. It can also work the other way, within reason, especially if there's an incentive of 'make this work and you only have to work 4 days a week instead of 5, but for the same money'.

We're going to a 4 day system - so now a full working is 32 hours and not 40. I'm all for it, but there's been lots of consultations across the business on it. And, based on conversations I've had, no person on a part time contract has been invited to any of those discussions.
I would expect that reassurance be offered to those on less hours (typically women / those with care responsibilities) that our contracts will be looked at. If my peer is making £90k for 4 days then I ought to be as well as my working week would now just be a standard working week.
Requesting full time now isn't an option - I work very flexibly but I can't do more hours because my eldest has some additional needs which takes up lots of spare time. I can't stretch myself more, even for a couple of months.
I've booked in time with HR to ask some questions but I wanted to sense check I wasn't just being a bit grabby

You are right. It has to be about equity of outcome.

You're right, you should either be offered the fulltime salary for 4 days like your peers, or the equivalent reduction in hours and stay on the same salary.

Do you work in a sector with a clear pay scale? Any public sector organisation this would be very clear or charity sector usually has transparent pay bands.

OP your argument is that you were paid 32/40 of the full time salary.

Under the new system, you need be paid 32/32 of the full time salary, ie 100%.

Otherwise if they continue to pay you 80% of full time salary, your workload should be 80% of everyone else's and you should only need to work 3 days a week, for slightly longer than 8 hours a day to make it 80% of 32 hours.

My work over the years has changed full time hours from 37 to 35 and back up to 37.5 hours and each time people working part time were paid proportionally eg 20/37, 20/35 or 20/37.5 if they didn't adjust their hours. Which is right because otherwise it's indirect discrimination as disproportionately affects women with caring responsibilities.

If you don't get anywhere with HR, go to somewhere like ACAS for support.