Can you ever call an abused woman a ' bad mum ' ?

[chasemee]

My father has been pretty abusive to my mum all my life. I never saw a healthy relationship there at all.

He called her names, sometimes slapped her around. He has serious anger issues. He provided for us financially but his behaviour was always pretty mean on the whole.

My mum should have left him, of course she should. But it's not as simple as that. She tried to leave, but she had no resources and her own family also turned their backs on her.

She did what she could to placate my father and live the best life with us that she could, considering the situation she was in.

Her father was also extremely abusive towards her mother and her siblings.

She was stuck.

Anyway, other members of the family are now saying that she's a shitty mum for not protecting her kids from an abusive situation.

It's really wound me up. It's easy to say that you would leave an abusive man, but without being in that situation - you can't know what you'd actually do.

My dad didn't abuse me and my siblings physically or anything like that.

I think we underestimate the society our mothers grew up in.

my mum was unhappy in her marriage. My dad was a very angry man, and it would’ve been better for me and my DB if she had left.

But compared to many other shitty dads and husbands in the 70’s. She was lucky. He never controlled finances. He worked hard and was a good provider. He never hit her. But his moods were unbearable ( looking back it was untreated depression)

my DB is very angry about our upbringing and blames my mum for staying. While I agree she should have left him, I know my mother did everything because she thought it was best for her kids. She thought she’d be left homeless if she left. She didn’t want her kids having a broken home because it was very unusual ( none of my school friends have divorced parents- but I know many would be divorced if they were from our generation). I even remember talking to her about leaving when I was a kid ( I know!) but she was terrified at the thought and believed that if you ‘made your bed, you had to lie in it’

I even remember reading my mum’s magazines in my early teens- it was full of stories about women who’d been ostracised by their friends after divorce. Never got invited anywhere and were lonely and miserable.

it sounds ridiculous now! But this was the 80’s. We are much more aware of domestic abuse nowadays and the fact that he never needs to hit you for it to be abuse. But even until recently, I would’ve thought DA was someone being hit. Until then, I probably wouldn’t have considered it abuse.

I agree with you, OP, your mum probably made a lot of mistakes by today’s standards. But I reckon she did the best she could and probably was only thinking about her kids. That’s the tragedy of it. She’s deserves your forgiveness and understanding.

I agree with this. I don’t think people understand the pain these women are living under every single day.

not enough is done to protect women from abusers- just look at the number of murdered women. These abusers don’t ‘snap’ - they’ve been abusive for years. Often there’s a history of police being called. Yet they still end up murdered by people with a history of threatening them.

I continue to be abused ( psychologically and verbally) by my ex. No one does anything. It often feels like I’m living with a chronic illness. The only way I could stop it is walking away from DS. There isn’t any other way I can make it stop.

I don’t, because I have the resources to put up barriers. I have a support network.

I think we do understand and it’s all too easy to say people don’t understand and give women a pass for not just accepting they themselves live in abuse but let their kids. Maybe it’s time we give the message it’s not ok, you do bear a responsibility and you do need to leave or not let him near your kids.

Wow so because you’ve given donations to victims of domestic violence, you’re now an expert on when they should leave?

Do you not think your implication that ‘some don’t want to live on benefits’ is incredibly offensive to victims of abuse?

Do you think it’s easy to leave when your partner threatens you with burning you and your children to death in a house fire, if you leave?

It can be really hard to accept that you may not have had two good enough parents.

It is a shame your mum perpetuated the cycle of abuse. Now it's down to you to break it.

I think we can accept that abuse is often on a spectrum and not every case involves the threat of being burned alive. The OP hasn't actually said that there were death threats.

Objectively, subjecting a child to abuse is bad parenting. It's certainly not good parenting which is why social services will take your child if you won't leave.

Ultimately parents are responsible for the welfare of their children and children don't thrive in abusive households.

I think abused women can be bad mums. But from what you’ve said I don’t think your mum was

Objectively, subjecting a child to abuse is bad parenting. It's certainly not good parenting which is why social services will take your child if you won't leave. Ultimately parents are responsible for the welfare of their children and children don't thrive in abusive households

this.

But do you understand? How many women leave at the very first hint of abuse? Because often it creeps up and it takes a while to realise that ‘concern’ is actually control.

I don’t think anyone in a long term, committed relationship that has been otherwise great would leave a man because he makes a comment about not liking an outfit. On it own, it’s not abuse is it? But then it slowly intensifies until a woman stops wearing stuff he doesn’t like.

there often comes a point where women realise what’s happening, but are these women responsible for their abuse until they reach that point?

again we are back to women being blamed for men’s actions.

I don’t know your background but I don’t think you do understand.

I have a friend in an emotionally and verbally abusive relationship. She won’t leave him because she likes her large house. I admit I sometimes judge her. Her H is damaging their kids with his behaviour. She has the resources to leave, but doesn’t.

On one hand I can understand where you’re coming from. I’ve tried to get my friend to leave, but her fear is very real.

It isn't women being blamed for men's actions. It's a parent having to face up that they must take responsibility for having their kids living in that situation.

Yes. It’s absolutely possible to be a victim of abuse and a bad mum. It’s even possible to be a perpetrator of abuse and victim of abuse too.

I think they can. I know a woman who has been abused for years by her husband, but now his abuse has turned to their teenaged children she sides with him to avoid him turning on her. That, IMO, is a bad mother.

yes of course you can. People can be victims, be broken, and still be bad parents - either because of the trauma or other reasons. Bad parents are bad parents regardless of the causes.

Yes, you can. The two things are not mutually exclusive. I grew up with an abusive father and my mother didn't leave him until I was a young adult. I know and understand all the reasons why it's difficult for women to leave these marriages. I don't dispute any of them. But my mother was and is a terrible parent. It took me a long time to accept that and not be afraid to say it because of what happened. She's not awful in the way that he was, but she is self-absorbed and thoughtless and causes me a lot of hurt.

That happened in my family - grandmother let grandfather bash their kids, because when he was thumping them he wasn't thumping her. I suspect it's not that uncommon.

Yes, I agree. Of course women who are abused can be bad mothers. It's not only decent lovely people who are victims of abuse. Anyone can be abused regardless of how they are as a mother. I've worked in psych and seen plenty of situations where both parents were abusive to their children and the wife was also abused by the husband in addition to her abusing the kids.

This.

I think there is some objectivity around what good and bad parenting looks like. Despite our best efforts, most parents won't get it right all the time for a variety of reasons and I think we just have to own that. It sounds like OP's mum's parenting was bad in many regards and I don't think it does anyone any good to deny this. No child should witness abuse and I would be surprised if OP isn't suffering the long term consequences of this this.

I think there is a separate question about how someone that was subjected to bad parenting should view the parents involved. This is completely subjective and depends on loads of factors including whether you think the parent had any real alternatives. Personally I believe that there is almost always options and I have witnessed first hand people successfully leave the absolute worst situations and start a new life with their children. It involved a lot of bravery and determination but it was and is possible.

In my situation my dad was the victim, my mum the abuser. I don’t think he was the best dad and have only recently started to realise that. My siblings disagree and are staunch in the view that he couldn’t do more as he was a victim, as we were we. Also, in the 80s he wouldn’t have had a hope in hell of getting us out of that situation as he would not have been acknowledged as a victim of DV and we would have been left with her.
I feel that, because the bar was so low with her, his parenting seemed to be better than it actually was. Whilst I appreciate how hard it was, he didn’t acknowledge the damage (still doesn’t now) & if you took away the DV element the parenting was pretty poor. It’s only since I’ve become a parent that I’ve acknowledged this. I still appreciate the hell he has/is living but see his actual parenting as pretty poor at times.

@Justtobeclear I have similar feelings about my mother now, which became even clearer when I had my own kids. When I was a child he was the comparison, and anyone would have looked good next to that. But now, as an adult, I can see how poor a parent she was.

I have worked with mums who’ve not believed their child when their child told them they were abused by their father, even when that father has been prosecuted by the courts….so yes I would describe some as bad mums whilst still understanding the psychological conditions why some women fail to protect their own children. There can be generational abuse issues that led to that woman’s bad choices.

I used to work with a woman whose husband was prosecuted for paedophilia. Not only did she stick with him, she continued to allow her two young daughters contact against court orders.

Well, if you are a victim of abuse, statistically you are more likely to abuse your own kids, or let them be abused. Abusive relationships are what you know. It takes a huge amount of courage and self awareness to break these cycles. The people who do this are some of the bravest people on earth.

@chasemee i would also say if you have a family history where there is an abusive patriach(s)/matriarch somewhere in the family line, it is easier for family members to blame or criticise the family members who go on to act out the consequences of that abuse rather than to be able to blame or criticise the patriarch(s) who may have started that cycle of abuse.

She gave you what she could in the situation but what she was able to provide wasn’t enough. That doesn’t make her a bad person. She just wasn’t able to be the mum that you needed.

also historically and this is something that often isn’t considered it was only physical abuse that was considered as Domestic abuse- and coercive control only became a criminal offence very recently (around 2022, I think) and therefore the consequences of this abuse are still being explored.