To think that with over 1million pensioners in poverty, removing the WFA makes Labour the nasty party, who tell blatant lies?

[TealTraybake]

And hypocritical lies at that. Just a few months ago Labour ‘vowed to be the party for pensioners’

‘Nearly 1 million people aged over 66 in the UK are living in deprivation, according to government statistics, the highest number since comparable records began.
Labour, which analysed figures from Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) records, has vowed to be the party for pensioners, with plans to insulate millions of homes and reduce energy bills. It has also “committed to retaining” the triple lock which guarantees annual rises to the state pension’

I understand the WFA should be means tested - but the current threshold is far too low. Food prices have gone up. Energy prices have gone up. Some pensioners need that WFA 🥺.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/nearly-1m-uk-pensioners-deprivation-official-figures

I suspect that the real deep source of the animosity between public and private sector is the generosity of public service pension entitlements. Our military friends have pensions of 2/3rds final salaries plus inflation, which were £65k -- 10 years ago. Yes, on occasion they were close to risking death

Perhaps in civilian life they would have earned more, but they would not have had the security of employment. Teachers and NHS have do have secure work and, sorry to say it, few of you have contributed enough, or taken any risks to build a business and create new employment.

The cost of public sector pensions is what will kill the UK's economy.

You do know that most public sector pensions are nothing like final salary schemes any more, and will not pay out anything like enough to live on? Yes, a few very highly paid public sector workers <cough, MPs> will get very generous pensions. Your bog standard worker really won't.

The problem with the UK is the absolutely shit provision of private pensions and the extremely low level of the state pension - one of the lowest in Europe.

It's very specific speculation. Do you think the press are asking random questions that Labour just can't be bothered denying? Do you not think Labour tests public reaction to its ideas and engages in a bit of nudge manipulation itself? Political parties watch mumsnet threads, it's not a shocking revelation.

Oh, and just to say that this NHS worker has been made redundant twice and has three times been on fixed term contracts... So much for security. No, it isn't the gig economy, nor should it be. But it's not jobs for life any more either. People just want to believe it is.

I don't think it's specific at all. There's only so many items that could be targeted. I think it's far more likely that the section of the press which have always been hostile to anything not Tory are whipping up froth. 'Enemies of the people', anyone?

And speculating about things online which will probably never happen just whips up more hostility - ask yourself, cui bono?

Network Rail and other rail cos still run final salary pension schemes.
37hr weeks 32 days leave exc BHs etc.
the the fact they just been given pay rises by Starmer is disgusting.

@pointythings , I don't know many high ranking civil servants, or many public sector employees either, except doctors and military, but I do know that their pensions are way more secure than ours. We risked our own money to create a business. We hired people, on competitive rates because we wanted competent people.To deliver. Our business is post OEM remanufacturing. It's very bespoke. And it has been moderately successful. No, it's not big, or glamorous but it provides properly paid jobs for our handful of employees in a region that's usually associated with NMW and zero hours.

The problem with the UK is the absolutely shit provision of private pensions and the extremely low level of the state pension - one of the lowest in Europe.

So you will be with me @pointythings in thinking that we need better businesses to fund better pensions?

Oh I'm sorry! I didn't realise I was guilty of what is now a criminal offence by apparently whipping up hostility against a political party. Can't question Labour can we? I don't think some people know how policy works. But I'll be interested to see what's said after the budget.

People are very protective over Labour

They have to be @EasternStandard . There is nobody on the Front bench who has ever held a job where they were required to make a profit.

Some people.

Profit? Competition? No no no!

But a certificate of participation for everybody.

Seriously, no person on the current Front Bench has ever held a job in which rthey had to make a profit to progress. That worries me.

I didn't know that.

They can get so much through with those numbers too

Without any understanding of where the funds to pay for everything are produced.

SKS-- a barrister
RR-- a BoE economist
David Lammy -- career politician
Ed Milliband-- career politician
Angela Rayner--career politician, trade union

Shall I continue?

i agree, that’s very concerning. On the plus side, they have demonstrated how good they are at spending other people’s money…on clothes if nothing else 🤣🤣

Ask not what you can do for your country but what freebies you can get

So much for 'service' pre GE line

Given that business has thus far completely failed to deliver good pensions, why should I trust them to do it now?

Well, Rishi Sunak had such a job. And look what he did with it.
Frankly, I'd rather the country was run by a barrister than by a hedge fund manager. I remember 2008 - it wasn't the public sector that caused the crash.

You cannot compare the UK state pension with pension provision in the rest of Western Europe. It’s like comparing apples and elephants. In other countries they don’t have a separate workplace pension, the employer and employee pay into one state run pension. So of course ‘state pension’ is much bigger overseas - it’s the only pension they have and they paid a heck of a lot more than we did into it.

The country needs business to thrive to pay for the public sector.

It was sub prime mortgages that caused the crash and high exposure to risk through regulation that made it so bad in the UK. Under Labour

Pensions for all were introduced in 2012, via autoenrolment, by the Tories; it will be a slow build but everyone now has the opportunity, which my generation didn't. Gordon Brown's first budget raid on the pension dividend tax credit completely trashed an otherwise functional pension environment.

But yes, BHS and many other companies went under due to having a massive defined benefit pension liability, and the UK state pension bill is getting ever bigger. Will the country go bust? Only time will tell.

So what is your point - as it sounds like you’re suggesting economic context remains static and government policy can’t change?

Margaret Thatcher introduced right to buy, thus starting the long decline and availability of social housing by a Tory government. So what Rayner benefitted from a policy of it’s time (whether we agree with it or not).

There is now a national shortage/crisis of social housing. Labour would be idiots to ignore this and you’re, yet again, politicising what are pretty basic common sense decisions.