To think that with over 1million pensioners in poverty, removing the WFA makes Labour the nasty party, who tell blatant lies?

[TealTraybake]

And hypocritical lies at that. Just a few months ago Labour ‘vowed to be the party for pensioners’

‘Nearly 1 million people aged over 66 in the UK are living in deprivation, according to government statistics, the highest number since comparable records began.
Labour, which analysed figures from Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) records, has vowed to be the party for pensioners, with plans to insulate millions of homes and reduce energy bills. It has also “committed to retaining” the triple lock which guarantees annual rises to the state pension’

I understand the WFA should be means tested - but the current threshold is far too low. Food prices have gone up. Energy prices have gone up. Some pensioners need that WFA 🥺.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/nearly-1m-uk-pensioners-deprivation-official-figures

What because they are noticing the uncomfortable truth of faux leftists who are making racist comments outing themselves?

”boat people” “ people on boats “ “foreign aid” “looking after your own first”

Judging by post interaction quite a few quiet observers have noticed also.

People who are losing the WFA will by default have to have worked over the number of years to avoid pension credit

It may be a lower wage job but it's still all the years required

The likelihood of owning a second home generally increases with age. Those aged between 55-64 were the most likely to have a second home, with 31% of households with access to a second home from this age group. The proportion slightly decreased in the 65 and over age group (27%). The proportions across age groups were similar to what they were in 2010-11, save for those in the 35-44 age group. In 2021-22, 9% of second homes were owned by those 35-44. In the 2010-11, 18% of second homes were owned by people in the same age group, Annex Table 5.

There is going to be a lot on the telly that have second homes like Richard and Judy, people like that but I don't know anyone in real life that has one.

I mean I’m quoting actual facts, you’re just making things up.

27% of people over 65 and 31% of over 55s.

Nowhere near 8%.

“That’s crazy talk”
So at least we agree, it is crazy that so many people are talking about pensioners like one homogenous group but actually many of them have huge wealth.

@TealTraybake I want to be a kingfisher. Every time I see one is a golden day.

Not sure the relevance of why you’re sending this to me? I’m not the one who claimed it was only 8% or suggested it was barely any pensioners because I didn’t personally know one.

Nearly 1 million in poverty - ONS figures from the 2021 indicate more than 11 million of pensionable age, so probably more than that now - surely better for any available cash to be targeted towards those in poverty rather than handed out as a universal benefit?

Absolutely.

"Ok but you're still ignoring the other end of the spectrum."

@EasternStandard I'm really not. I'm not an idiot, I am well aware that there will be pensioners who are struggling. My point has always been that they are by far not the only demographic to be struggling, and other demographics have been consistently ignored or demonised for years with very little backlash.

Where was the uproar when women were told they would have to state their third child had been conceived as a result of rape in order to get tax credits?

Where was the uproar when a man was found literally dead because he couldn't afford to keep the fridge running to house his insulin?

Where is the uproar about the malnutrition crisis mainly affecting children?

Guess which demographic was most likely to vote Tory in the 2024 election? The party that has systematically destroyed the safety net of all other demographics. But like I say, as long as they're all right I guess?

😂😂 Are you sure? I’m quoting facts from retirement specialists LV=.

‘The report found that the value of the average property owned by sixty-somethings is £272,000. Three quarters (75 per cent) of people within this age group are mortgage free, and one in 12 (8 per cent) own a second home.‘

But that’s by the by.

The point of this thread is about the pensioners who DO NOT have great wealth. And the fact Starmer is ensuring they’re fcked over this winter.

I definitely don't own a second home; I rent other people's second homes, for the odd weekend. And it costs as much as staying in a nice hotel for the privilege, and you get to cook your own food too. Which suits us because I cook better than most pub chefs, and so do two of the other couples. So we just go out once, to the fanciest place.

Yes, I think there’s a major misunderstanding of the data on which that poster was commenting! According to the government around 2.2 million households have a second home. So that’s around 8% of them.

Of that 8%, 31% are between 55 and 64, which I suspect is the number that’s been grasped at. But what that actually means is that about 2.5% of all householders between 55 and 64 have a second home. The over 65s make up 27% of the 8%, so just over 2% of households overall. Not a third 😂

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/english-housing-survey-2021-to-2022-second-homes-fact-sheet/english-housing-survey-2021-to-2022-second-homes-fact-sheet#:~:text=Those%20aged%20between%2055%2D64,over%20age%20group%20(27%25).

Yawn

Ah, the family opposite has, though not retired yet, one of those holiday caravans on a site where you pay site fees but can't stay in it all year, are they included maybe.

"What because they are noticing the uncomfortable truth of faux leftists who are making racist comments outing themselves?

”boat people” “ people on boats “ “foreign aid” “looking after your own first”

Judging by post interaction quite a few quiet observers have noticed also."

@Aduvetday exactly. That poster keeps tagging me and quoting me but not replying to a single one of my questions. Their racism is clear for all to see.

Ah well know we can see how you’ve made the mistake. It’s easily done if you don’t understand the data. The LV data only refers to those that own a property…it does not include the quite high number that don’t, and live in social or rented homes.

So 12% of people who own a home and are over 60 own a second home. That does not mean 12% of those over 60 own a second home. Indeed, a quick google will take you to some ONS data that will tell you how many households over 60 do own their own home. Spoiler alert - it’s not 100%

It shows the racism problem in this country for what it is. One because so many people are stealthy recognising the posts and don’t have the confidence to speak up. Two people don’t see what they are saying as racism because they are leftists you know and only if it is from a working class Reform voter is it racist. It is also not racist and can be dismissed if we are talking about the old frail pensioners who have lived here all their lives are white .

Apologies, I was not aware that race was a factor in this conversation. As I am white, I think I should recuse myself.

Absolutely!

That's why I think child benefit should be next on list. Only those in poverty should get it.

I agree, there's no reason to give it to those who are fortunate enough to have to rely on it.

Which is what happens. It is already means tested. That’s why it will be PIP and child DLA next. RR already making noises about that.

It’s means-tested at a much higher level than WFA though

It is and no doubt that will be looked at again too. The problem they found with CHB was it was taxing higher rate tax payers out of productivity. People were working less to stay under the bands. Many fiscal bodies have warned that those issues lower tax take. Also things like the personal allowance. They have to balance targetting means testing benefits targeted and the working population with how much that can actually reduce tax take. It’s a fine line we seem to have broken. Hence the majority of net state dependents and the financial shit show we have now. It’s also why the IMF have said targeting pension tax relief would have unintended consequences…so they won’t. Not as simple as I can’t have my ball so I’ll take yours.