To think that with over 1million pensioners in poverty, removing the WFA makes Labour the nasty party, who tell blatant lies?

[TealTraybake]

And hypocritical lies at that. Just a few months ago Labour ‘vowed to be the party for pensioners’

‘Nearly 1 million people aged over 66 in the UK are living in deprivation, according to government statistics, the highest number since comparable records began.
Labour, which analysed figures from Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) records, has vowed to be the party for pensioners, with plans to insulate millions of homes and reduce energy bills. It has also “committed to retaining” the triple lock which guarantees annual rises to the state pension’

I understand the WFA should be means tested - but the current threshold is far too low. Food prices have gone up. Energy prices have gone up. Some pensioners need that WFA 🥺.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/nearly-1m-uk-pensioners-deprivation-official-figures

@sunbum

I'm no fan of this labour government, in fact I cant stand them, but it seems absolutely ridiculous to me to give multi millionaires over 65 or whatever it is or even just wealthy people 300 quid they don't want or need, when that money could be used to help other people, so it seems fine to me to makes this means tested.

My mum isn't wealthy but she has 2 pensions and has paid off her mortgage. She doesn't want or need the payment.

That's the thing you see. If there hadn't been so many greedy, grabby pensioners taking the £300 when they had six figure sums in savings and multiple thousands coming in per month, (and if the Government had already put something put in place for anybody with more than say £35,000 a year income and more than £25,000 in savings to not get it,) this may never have happened ... Because the vast majority of pensioners (who didn't need it,) would have ended up not getting it, and the ones on much less money wouldn't have had to lose it. It would only ever have gone to the most needy.

I didn't realise that the threshold was as low as £12,000 a year to be honest. I do think the threshold needs raising - I would say at least £30,000 a year income. But I genuinely think they do need to stop it for people who've got more money. (Say, more than £30,000 a year income - as I said, OR more than £25,000 in savings.)

Also though, the pensioners are getting a pay rise that is more than the winter fuel allowance, and have all kinds of concessions and freebies too. I think it's overreacting for people to say that taking £300 a YEAR from each one is going to result in mass poverty and deaths. I'm sorry, I'm just not buying it. And I say this as someone who is not a million miles from being a pensioner myself!

As has been said by many posters, every age group and demographic has had to take a hit, it wasn't fair that pensioners never had to lose anything, ever!

.

I absolutely agree, this benefit should never have been a blanket one.
I speak as an about-to-be pensioner who is renting, and who will be living solely on state pension (although very slightly above the standard rate owing to SERPS).
My yearly amount will be around £12,900.

It's doable for me as I have planned for retirement, I can live within that amount because I chose to live rurally, in retirement accommodation. It's designed affordable within a state pension.

While it certainly isn't true that all pensioners "own their own homes" and have "huge pension pots", there are many of us who can manage perfectly well on the state pension. I do not need the extra fuel allowance and I certainly don't think it should be going to those who do not need it. And there are funds for those who are in desperate need, including extra one-off monies that Age UK can help folk apply for.

The government will be saving around 1.4 billion - that's a heck of a lot of money to be paying out to those who really don't need it.

They already do.

And giving it to another group of people who really don’t need it

And the pensioners who do need it just over cut off? As talked about by MPs, some with full understanding of the fears from their constituents

You are ok with that I assume?

Absolutely agree with this, and I would fully support means testing winter fuel allowance, it’s just that the current bar is set far too low and people will suffer in poverty due to this

@EasternStandard no. I didn't say that. I've already said I think the threshold is too low. I was agreeing with the post that said that the pension went up in April, and energy prices have fallen since last year.
But since a lot of pensioners were in poverty last year, simply being a bit better off (due to rising pension and falling energy bills having a bigger positive effect than the negative effect of taking away the WFA) doesn't actually mean they'll be fine this year.

Speaking as a pensioner, I have no issue with it.

Are you on about £12k a year

That’s not really for you to ask

@Mooneywoo - it was just an idea for a threshold that had some meat on it, an ok ace to draw a line that people could understand. Any cut off point will see unhappy people but there has to be one and £12k is too low esp given those on pension credit get a shed load of other benefits.

Frankly I think the NNW is too low and that working people aren't being paid fairly but that's another conversation.

Lastly I'm not blaming the younger generation however there are a significant number who are economically inactive and I'm not including students in that. I think Labour (well politicians) like pitching the young generation against the pensioners, it suits them to have this bickering, but we will all be old one day.

a place to draw a line

Why does every decision that Labour make have to be a consequence of the Tories lashing things up? Many of you are swallowing the rhetoric without looking at the facts. The Tories inherited massive debt from Labour when they came into power; they’ve also had to contend with Covid and there is no guarantee that had Labour been in power that their cronies wouldn’t have benefitted to the tune of millions as well from dodgy contracts. Are you laying Covid at the Tories door? The economy was improving but has stagnated for the last two months; I wonder why? Personally, I have no more faith in Labour than I did in Liz Truss 😳

Not all do. And I was in part addressing misconceptions that I’ve seen on these threads. If it helps one person, then that’s great.

I work in this area and so many people don’t claim what they are entitled to.

I’m a pensioner and I do have an issue with it. I can see the Labour politicians claiming expenses, eating in a subsidised canteen and don’t get me started on the House of Lords.

I expected much better from the Labour Party.

I really don’t think the majority of the population disagree with the principle of a means tested winter fuel allowance.

DH and I both come from very low-wage, working class backgrounds. And yet all the pensioners in our families are quite comfortable, certainly won't be panicking about the loss of WFA. It's a very comfortable generation and those who are genuinely in poverty will still get the same help, more in fact as pensions continue to rise. Of all vulnerable demographics in this country, the elderly are by far the least likely to be living in poverty.

I really don’t agree that 12k take home a year disposable after taxes and housing is too little to heat your home.

Then why were 50 Labour MPs conveniently absent from the vote?

However as people have stated above, Kier. & co with regards to expenses and tax breaks is still a scandalous situation and I cannot understand why there is not more national outcry. Sickens me that people were desperate enough to put their trust in labour again, although I can understand why many felt they had no choice. They are worse than the Conservatives imo because they are just as selfish and greedy but in a sickeningly underhand way.

This is the position my mum and many of her friends are in too – they agree with the change. The majority of over 65s are Conservative voters anyway, so the demographic is what it is.

You suggesting your sister lives on an income of £160 a year??? 😂

Agree, it should definitely be means tested and although pensioners don't have a huge income, their outgoings tend to be a lot less.

Let's not forget, many of the older generation have voted for brexit and the tories, have no understanding that owning a house now is unachievable due to the housing market and can't understand why modern 'luxeries' (ie internet & mobiles) are essential now.

Whichever party took over from the tories was always going to 'do something wrong', the tories have messed up the country, we're in the middle of a cost of living crisis due to numerous factors. I believe that it will get worse before things improve.

@Evilartsgrad There are many more like my aunt trust me!

The pretty poor absolutely will still receive it. Why can’t people grasp that- it’s means tested.

Yes, l do appreciate and understanding what you’re saying.