Why is Kamala referred to as a Black Woman?

[Vior]

Watched a doc on iplayer and it struck me that many commentators referred to Kamala as a black woman. It’s not just sloppiness as some of the black, democrat women participating did similar.

It intrigues me. Especially as a woman with a half Indian daughter. I think I would be pretty surprised if DD referred to herself as purely English or purely Indian. She can pass for both depending on tan.

I know the US has a much different view on race and assume it is based on that. Genuinely interested. Not rage baiting. Have googled the question and no answer has really emerged.

You dont have to have both black parents to be black.

I didn't say it was - but if you really think people don't see their skin colour first before anything else - regardless of their heritage, you are deluded

Her mother was Indian, her father Afro-Caribbean Jamaican.

If she prefers to identify as Black rather than biracial or mixed heritage or Indian or another label then that's her decision and it's courtesy to respect that.

If she's not expressed a preference then it's worth noting that for a long time in US society anyone who 'looked' as if they had some Black ancestry was typically seen as Black, largely because of hundreds of years of slavery on US soil and enforced racial segregation that lasted, in some states, well into the 20th century.

The Civil Rights movement and associated politics in the US also led to changes in how many Black people - who typically couldn't say if their heritage was Ghanaian or Nigerian or Ivorian etc., because of the Transatlantic slave trade - identified in a collective way and saw themselves in society, for example creating a distinct African-American culture including the deliberate use of personal names that were identifiably and proudly African-American and celebrations such as Juneteenth.

In the UK, where almost all people of colour are descended from (or are themselves) immigrants from the last 70ish years we are much more likely to see people as - for example - half Jamaican and half Indian. Or, for ease, mixed heritage.

Two different countries, two different histories. Neither is correct or wrong - just different.

Tl;dr: respect how people wish to be identified and racial identity has a different history in the US to the UK. What might seem unusual in one country is completely standard in the other.

Have to agree with this! I live in the US and President Obama will have gone through his life as a Black man.

Regardless of half his family being white and being raised by his white family, school, work, the police, other social and commercial institutions will have perceived him as a Black man and treated him accordingly.

It’s wrong, but it’s a thing here. Black people—especially Black men—are treated differently and have a different life experience than white men. His life experience is that of a man of color. Through the 70s-90s, especially, life was incredibly hard for POC in the US. It’s moving in a better direction in many areas, but systemic racism is a very real thing.

English/Indian are nationalities not Ethnicities.
I am bi-racial - and would describe myself as such. Although others would identify me a black, it's not something that really comes up that often, so I'm surprised you find it discussed so frequently around your daughter.
I expect people describe Kamala as a 'black/brown woman' because that is what she looks like.
Saying your daughter is 'white passing' suggests that you find this to be a beneficial trait.
My daughter is 3/4 white, but I would never refer to her as 'white passing', nor can I imagine a situation where I'd have to discuss her shade with anyone tbh.

It is patronising too

In the US if you are half black you tend to be referred to as black

Because people who are not "white" are prejudiced against, it gives solidarity for non "white" people to refer to themselves as black. They have the power and influence of being in a larger group. The whole colour thing seems nonsense to me, I don't know anyone who is snow white or coal black, we're all shades of brown. I wish we could celebrate our cultural heritage without prejudice.

@BarbaraHoward
Forgive me for being off topic, but is your user name from the character in Abbott Elementary? Which I adore, and Barbara is obviously second only to Ava Coleman in wonderfulness.

@BarbaraHoward
Forgive me for being off topic, but is your user name from the character in Abbott Elementary? Which I adore, and Barbara is obviously second only to Ava Coleman in wonderfulness.

Because they love being offended, and will always take an opportunity to showcase how morally superior they are. Ignore them.

"I didn't hear lots of debate around him being described as black."

There was a bit. I think you could question the whole role model thing as he was not coming from the same background as other black Americans who would be African-American descendants of slaves.
He was the son of an African chief and a white mother with a pdh and the descendant of slave masters rather than of slaves.

I also read somewhere that he made a conscious decision to identify more wholly as black at a certain point of his career.

In Kamala's case, I think it's possible that she wants to downplay the Indian side a bit, particularly her Brahmin ancestry.

This way of describing a person’s heritage is considered quite offensive these days. Mixed race people are not half anything. Kamala has Black and Indian heritage. Else we risk going back to the days of ”half castes” and worse.

Most people I know of 'half' black heritage, UK or US, refer to themselves as black. With a black father, I'm not about to argue with her, and I find most black people accept persons of black/other mixed heritage as black.

Not all non-white people are black.
1/8 of the world's population are Indian, and another 1/8 Chinese.

This is interesting. As a black woman, I have rarely, if ever, heard this argument from the non-black perspective.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sXje3oJ8T8o

I thought this was funny and apt

It is!

Exactly, there’s a particular history and cultural context in the US that means “black” is a construct to some extent. For example in that context there is some debate about whether recent African immigrants to the US are “black” in the same way that the descendants of slaves are. So it’s a contested term in that sense.

I didn’t say they were ethnicities.

You have made many assumptions. I do not think having a child that is mistaken for just white is an advantage.

Did you see where I wrote she is also mistaken for being entirely Indian when tanned?

I made the comment to highlight the fluidity if racial perception.

Most people who are half black experience racism from the other community they are part of - which you will be well aware of, I'm sure you're also well aware of the Indian communities racist attitudes towards black people so I'm not sure why you asked this question when you as the mother of a mixed race child yourslef - you should respect her right to identify as she wants as you would your own daughter.

May I ask what is the black perspective?

Omg ,@BarbaraHoward fabulous, I'm always telling people I work with in school to watch it. I went on and on at my partner about Barabara and the actor who plays her for so long!

@WannabeMum22 sure you're also well aware of the Indian communities racist attitudes towards black people.

This is not something I have come across. In my own family, my SIL is married to a man of Ghanaian descent and my ILs are very accepting.

I’m leaving this thread. I asked a genuine question. Was interested in learning but have had a number of posters jump on me for being an instigator and ignorant.

"English/Indian are nationalities not Ethnicities."

I don't know about Indian, but English can definitely be considered an ethnicity. There is no official list of ethnicities.