To ask if anyone is clued up on the challenge this week to VAT on school fees?

[feesss]

we went to look round a school this morning and we obviously asked about VAT and the lady showing us round said there has been a challenge this week so it may not happen? Is anyone aware of this? I can’t see much online about it?

There are only a handful of indy special schools. Most indy schools are categorically not like this. Specialist SEN schools will be exempt if LA is paying.

The irony of this policy is that small indy schools will only be able to afford to keep going as part of chains and Chinese investment firms are already eyeing British indy schools up. So it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy: Labour claim these schools are businesses and tax parents plus increasing business rates which then reduces the number of parents who can use them and the schools are then forced to become businesses in order to survive and then yes shareholders end up profiting.

I haven't seen it either, I don't think it's public. I think there's a danger that this is a policy which will be pushed through for emotive reasons, despite a rational analysis showing that it will make things worse (rather like brexit, albeit nowhere near as harmful overall).

What did Labour vote down recently? I thought it was doing an impact assessment

The press was alluding to comments on SEND so I wonder if there is something they have and if anyone has put in a Freedom of Information request, that was all. I haven’t seen anything published.

As I have Covid generation children myself I know the impact first hand and I absolutely dread to think of anyone with children their ages with SEND who will be caught out by this so that they can do some point-scoring pointscoring. It is truly quite awful. I guess for many in that position homeschooling will be the only option going forward.

I'm not sure about the FOI request but I agree it's really so bad

Didn’t they effectively ignore the impact statement on the winter fuel allowance? If they did that then I would be surprised if they take into account any adverse impact of VAT on fees, if indeed they did ask for an impact statement (assuming it isn’t a requirement).

I’ve seen several reports in the press about sen children/children with ehcps being exempt but i think it’s possibly a misrepresentation of the fact that it won’t be a cost for parents with children with ehcps as their fees are paid by the la anyway rather than it being an actual exemption. Exemption for sen would be impossible to implement as where would cut off be

From my understanding, a child with an ECHP will still be subject to the VAT on fees, where the parents pay the fees. The only children not affected are those where the LEA funds those places, where a specific private school is named on the ECHP. The government information says

“Of the pupils in ISC schools with SEND, 7% have been placed by a local authority through an Education Health and Care Plan (EHCP). This measure will not impact pupils with the most acute additional needs, where these can only be met in private schools. Local authorities fund pupils’ places in private schools where their needs can only be met in a private school. For example, in England, where attendance at that private school is required by a child’s EHCP, local authorities will be able to reclaim the VAT on the fees from HMRC.”

From the TES

“The Treasury has said that VAT will not be applied to the fees of pupils with an educational, health and care plan (EHCP) if it states that they need a local authority-funded place in a private school for specialist support and that this place can not be provided by mainstream state-funded education.

However, where parents and guardians choose to send their child with special educational needs or disabilities to a private school, VAT will be applied to their fees.

The tax also applies where pupils have an EHCP but the local authority has decided that a private school place is not necessary to meet their needs.”

My comment was in response to one about making money out of education rather than specifically vat. There are loads of independent specialist schools not just a handful, I can think of at least 10 within a 10
mile radius of where I live, obviously there are less children at each than a mainstream

There are only a handful of indy special schools.

That’s not true. According to the government website, there are 792 independent special schools in England and 52 NMSS in England. There are also some independent specialist post 16 institutions (there are 141 specialist post 16 institutions in England, most of which are independent, but I don’t know the precise number if it isn’t all).

We had our letter today, net increase of 17.5% after vat clawback. We can pay it without too much pain, but I do worry about others getting through the 4 years if Labour ignore legal challenge rulings.

I really don’t think I’ve ever been so angry about a policy or so disappointed in fellow parents who support it. Saying that, another mum did put it in perspective when she reminded me that Labour are likely to make state schools an identity politics battleground nightmare over the next few years. Even if you have to beggar yourself in the process, you will at least have happy and much less messed children/adults as a result of not switching to state. Can’t put a price on that, so I’m trying to think of it as paying for Labour to leave my kids alone with their whacky damaging nonsense rather than an education tax. Makes me feel better anyway.

That's the only reason we are going to try to figure out a way of affording the rise, because we want to keep our DD free of Labour. Putting DD in for a scholarship in order to then hopefully enable a bursary application etc. I am determined to keep her out of the clutches of Labour.
Education is too important to be put in the hands of politicians. Especially ones who hate what we stand for ie personal choice + freedom from the state.

Aren't bursaries means tested where you live? Where we live families with parents earning six figure salaries would get a flat refusal.

Yes they are but each school has its own cut off point. We can't afford VAT therefore we are entitled to apply for a bursary. We rejected but at least we tried

Surely cut off points are surely not at six figure salary level outside SE? Or can anyone just apply? Are bursaries not meant for much lower earners?

Do you really believe this? Of course private education doesn't guarantee that DC will come out happy and not messed up. DH is quite a happy and straightforward chap but if I look at his peer group (Eton), many are anything but.

Ha ha, I can actually picture ex Eton pupils being a tad unusual. You’ve got me there.

But yes, I strongly believe non ideological/political education is preferable for mental health of children and long term prospects.

https://phillips-law.co.uk/insights/vat-on-private-schools-and-the-echr-lawful-or-unlawful/

The legal notes are starting to come out.

The thing is - if Labour does lose and a ton of private schools go bust and they were in breach, what then? A Government has broken the law and harmed some kids. Will there be compensation in the future? Is that a likely risk? If so, the courts should pass an injunction.

It may well be that part of the litigation once the claim form is issued (I think for judicial review) it may ask for urgent quick court dates or perhaps they can include an emergency immediate injunction to stop the changes pending a final hearing next year.

[On a side issue, I am not happy at the big profits private fostering etc companies make ( a different but similar issue to local authorities paying 100k a year school fees per child to private institutions) and think the state should take that all back in hand to save tax payers' money and Labour are looking into that - https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2024/11/18/crackdown-on-excessive-profits-pledged-as-government-unveils-childrens-social-care-reforms/ ]

They’re businesses - charging a lot of money. If they can’t make the business profitable then they go bust. Thats that.
there IS an alternative- we have an education system in place that is free to all children, should their parents choose to use it. 94% of us do.

@Lookslikemeemaw - you can keep spouting the party line, but that note explains the legal position on Human Rights quite clearly, for all - even those hard of thinking. And Starmer with his Human Rights specialism is going to look incredibly stupid if he loses in court.

And that education system isn't fit for purpose for many kids/in many ates. Have you seen the new data on exclusion rates + SEN?
Also most indy schools are not for profit organisations so any surplus has to be reinvested however for many it is "what surplus"? The increased NI + business rates hikes put on then by Labour are wiping out any "surplus" ie there is no more cloth to cut so the next step is we will see teacher redundancies. In fact it's already happening.

There isn’t a state education available in many cases. There simply aren’t places available. Our LEA does not have space for pupils switching from private to state.