To ask if anyone is clued up on the challenge this week to VAT on school fees?

[feesss]

we went to look round a school this morning and we obviously asked about VAT and the lady showing us round said there has been a challenge this week so it may not happen? Is anyone aware of this? I can’t see much online about it?

@BotanicalGreen yet again with the atypical examples. Millfield is famous as a swimming super academy. How about you go and look at a load of non south east day schools with fees around the 15-20k mark. Most average private schools are far more akin to middling state schools than they are Eton or Millfield in terms of their grounds and facilities. What's different is the staff to pupil ratio and their freedom to structure the curriculum in the way that best suits their pupils..many of whom are not academically strong and have sen needs unmet in state.

Yes I have. I know lots who have passed grammar tests easily, having been in bottom sets at primary school, but having received a lot of tuition.

This article backs this up.

www.nuffieldfoundation.org/news/children-from-rich-families-much-more-likely-to-secure-grammar-school-places-as-they-reap-rewards-from-private-tutoring

Not direct. Do your children go to super selective grammars? No. Children from rich families are more likely to secure a place for a whole raft of reasons but tutoring won’t budge a very bright DC’s marks by much at all.

Where did anyone say this was the norm? I certainly didn’t but it is not deluded to say there are schools like that. They exist and they are actually benefitting from this VAT initiative.

tutoring won’t budge a very bright DC’s marks by much at all.

Probably not, but it is very likely to budge an average child’s marks enough to secure them a place where they may have otherwise not passed.

I'm not denying they exist. I'm objecting to them being constantly trotted out as though they are typical. They are not and the parents that can afford them are not typical of the sector either. That's my massive issue with the many mn discussions there have been on this. Far too many people are weighing in with the only vaguest notions of what many typical private schools are and especially outside of the SE, what sort of income the parents are operating on.

While I don’t necessarily agree that private schooling is fair etc etc I don’t understand why parents need to pay VAT on it. Aren’t they already saving the taxpayer £££s by taking their kid out of state school?

@MattBerningerstrophywife because labour correctly assumed that setting the vast majority of 93% of parents against the 7% would be a vote winner. The only report that said it would bring in a net gain was written by a mate of a labour politician and everyone else has said it will not raise the amount forecast, will in some areas create pressure on state places and worst of all, disrupt vulnerable kids who have been moved once already out of a sector that couldn't meet their needs. Many parents like me are over-stretched and in debt to give their kids an education. Not a luxury one, just one their kids MH can cope with. But not one Labour politician has been prepared to engage with that. With the state of CAMHS and the EHCP process soul destroying and often impenetrable, the private sector is an escape route. A child has a limited number of years for their education...waiting 3+ years for assessment, EHCPs and legal wrangling isn't a reasonable alternative.

If you are talking standard county grammar probably push the borderline ones over but an average (or lower sets as you said) DC will never get into a super selective grammar with all the tutoring money can buy.

I wholeheartedly sympathise. They are totally hitting the wrong people. The state system fails your DC and most parents with DC in that situation will move heaven and earth to try to get something workable for them. Then you are hit again with this while Eton et al are laughing their way to the bank. It’s awful.

Thank you. Yes that's exactly it ..though I have no antipathy to Eton. I just wish the general knowledge of private schools wasn't based on it. There are so many ironic own goals with this policy it would be funny if it wasn't my kids and my financial equilibrium at stake.

It was announced well before that, seems that some were clutching at straws… hoping that Labour would back track in what is actually a really popular election promise

Sorry to hear that, of course some pp won't consider this but it's madness especially given SEN costing £10.7bn and councils are struggling. Those on the threshold who push a bit further to pay will struggle most, and add to the above.

You think that a "good" Ofsted rating is a guarantee that your child will have a good experience at that school? Ofsted inspections are a tickbox exercise that don't actually assess the quality of the education.

I'd be interested to hear about the private schools you think are "shite". If the parents thought that they were then they wouldn't pay for tuition there, would they?

You can't learn well just by reading a textbook, nor can you learn well online. There's no substitute for a human teacher.

Why isn’t that true of teachers then?

I've checked the private schools I'm aware of in North Wales. One of them has a pool. One. And it's a 25m pool.

An all-weather pitch is nothing special either, there was one at the state school I went to.

I'm sorry.

I'm in a similar situation. I work with several children and young people no longer in school after being utterly failed. I glimpsed into my own child's possible future, he is awaiting ND assessment and his early years have been a rocky road. I am well aware that you have to let a child struggle/fail to a degree to get an EHCP. I refuse to let that happen.

We made the decision not to have another (planned and much wanted) child and threw everything into finding a small, nurturing school with small class sizes and an emphasis on pastoral support. Our son is thriving there, he has reciprocal friendships, he is happy. There is no way we can move him. I refuse to let our sacrifices be for nothing. The school is tiny, I have no idea if it will survive.

We live in the catchment of an "outstanding" school but several children have moved over to my son's school, especially if they have SEN. They assure us we made the right decision in our school choice.

At the moment my child costs £0 per annum to the state. We fund his education and therapies as we aren't eligible for NHS services. I'd much rather not have to pay the vast majority of my salary towards school and therapies but the alternative was not an option for us. I earn similar wages to a nurse, in the South East.

The last few months have been so eye opening. I will not forget the Labour MPs glee, their dismissal of children like mine and families like mine. I will not forget the vitriol on Mumsnet and X.

@Musicofthespiers I'm sorry you're in that position. It's bad enough dealing with it without being told over and over that you're whinging, that your precious little Sebastian will just have to slum it with the plebs and how all private school parents can afford the extra if they're already funding the current fees. It's sickening and quite perverse how much glee some take in imagining children being harmed ... Also the frustrating tendency to put words in our mouths.. apparently we all think state schools and kids are chavvy, violent thugs, that we're "better" than them, that we're buying privilege. That the only reason we use private is to buy an advantage, when for those of us in our position, we're actually doing it to make up for the DISADVANTAGE our kids have by being ND or SEN. But again, none of that can compare to a quick and easy "rich bastards" narrative.

There are some quite extreme views amongst the Labour Party who obviously are not against using propaganda aimed at demonising children. There’s also no shortage of people looking for an outlet for their spite.
Fortunately, there are protections in place for exactly this sort of situation where basic rights are being threatened that are now being put into action. Hang in there, it’s only 4 years at the very worst and there are many other ways to contribute to a charity than paying fees to get these schools through.
I’m now a single issue voter and that single issue is not letting socialists have any control over children’s lives in the future.

Exactly! The viciousness aimed at our kids has been disgusting.
As a previous lifelong Labour voter I will never forgive them.

You see it on here as well
"Oh No, little Anastasia will have to mix with the plebs at school now".
We are small business owners too, Labour do really really hate us!

Well said!

And yet you say this about other groups of children children "Don’t forget that 49% of the population is below average intelligence and ( being brutally honest) its the exclusion of the children of these people that makes PS so successful." I don't agree with demonising children either but my view encompasses ALL children.

Same reason grammar schools are successful, you could put the children in a mud hut and they’d still perform better than in a school where a large minority are not interested in learning and are disruptive. I don’t support limiting any education choice though taxation and Phillipson deliberately excluded independently educated children in her ‘our’ children message.

I don’t know what your view is, your posts are incoherent.