Getting a puppy

[Whattodonut]

So as not to trip over another thread, our whole family want a dog. When we move to a house where kids toys can be shut away more easily we will be getting one.
But I want a puppy- to commit to training from scratch, and selfishly so it doesn't come with other poor training trauma (I also just want a puppy because... puppy)
Local rescues don't seem to have puppies ever. But I have no desire to get a pedigree because I don't think its best for the dogs.
Happy to pay (not excessive amounts!) but how do you get a puppy from a good-for-the-puppy place without going to a pedigree (or -apoo) breeder?
When I was younger I got ours from the local farmer whose working sheepdog had had an accidental pregnancy and where he was quite likely going to drown the rest. (Could only take one!)

Either get your details taken by a big rescue or go to pedigree breeder, there's no other way of getting a decent puppy these days. If I were you I'd go to a pedigree breeder who carries out dna health tests and hipscores. Anything with collie in it will need to be mdr1 tested.

This is sad. I'd rather a collie cross with something. But they are rare in shelters

You could try getting a Tofty, rough collie, crossed with Welsh sheepdog. They are health tested if from Wicani.

Try joining a local equestrian page on social media. I often see crossbreeds or accidental matings advertised on those.

Ask on you local livestock auctions Facebook page. Somebody usually knows of a farmer with a litter.

Why do you think a responsible breeder would breed a cross? What would be their motivation? A health-tested pedigree is best for the puppy. If you want a Heinz, get an adult rescue.

Check out a charity called Breeds in Need, they have lots of gorgeous staffy/bull breed type puppies needing homes at the moment and rehome all over the UK.

Also, there are lots of foreign puppies of all sizes needing homes and can travel once they're 4 months old. Costa Blanca Dog Homing is a group I adopted our dogs from.

The main things to consider are the size you're after, activity levels you require and what grooming requirements can you manage.

Have any dog coming in from abroad tested for brucellosis and setter types for leish.

I'd consider it an investment to obtain a well bred puppy whose parents are thoroughly health tested with scores available to see. I know of someone who has crossed her border collie with a bearded collie, there are decent people out there doing cross breeding.

So many rescues have cross-breed puppies. Check out Facebook pages. I adopted two that way.

I mean a good breeder wouldn’t be cross breeding so yeah the options are rescue or go to a proper health tested pedigree.

All dogs that have entered the UK from abroad since 2020 have to be tested when they're registered with a British veterinary practice, regardless of whether they were tested in their country of origin.

Unfortunately, this has not always happened, tho, there are some unscrupulous transporters out there!

Um..

Either you go to a good, reputable, ethical breeder who either breeds pedigrees to improve on the breed or who breeds a working type and works them, and does all the sensible health tests, in order to create functional healthy working dogs.

Or you go to a rescue and you take your chances - and a rescue puppy is not a blank slate. Epigenetics play a big part so a puppy from even an otherwise healthy, conformationally sound mum and dad, could as a result of severe stress or trauma, have some predisposition to behaviour issues later in life.

A crossbreed from someone not producing poodledoodledoos, who has come from random parents that look nice or have a good working ability themselves but their ancestry is unknown, their genetic health status is unknown, is every bit as much of a gamble as the rescue puppy.

Avoid like the plague the working type breeder who gives you the 'we don't test hips/elbows/eyes, our dogs are fit and working and thats all we need to know'.. because they are happy to cull dogs who don't make the grade. You, I promise you, will not be.

For what you want, I'd recommend you narrow down the breeds you like and find a decent pedigree breeder who does all the health testing and has reams of yawnsome data going back to the beginning of time, on the lines they use/have and the dogs they produce.

We went to the dogs trust for an older dog and ended up coming home with a puppy as they showed us the puppy section first! She was some sort of medium size lurcher type but she was an absolute angel.

This. And people breeding actual working dogs are generally breeding for the important stuff - health, form, intelligence, good temperament - rather than the new most popular colour or cutest features. Ask for test results and scores. My family have bred working dogs for decades and there are always puppies in any litter who probably aren’t going to make top herders or retrievers but who will still be great companion pets.

Mm, you'd think, but this is not always the case (in fact, not often!)...

I know a LOT of people, living in a rural area, who breed gundogs and herding dogs, not a hip or elbow, heart or eye test among them.

They breed every year, they're always running on dogs and training new dogs because they will sell part trained or fully trained dogs as well as puppies, and want to keep one or two for themselves.

SO if it turns out that one is badly affected by an eye problem or a hip problem etc (and often these things are not noticable for years.)

I have seen dogs who have lived with severe hip dysplasia, literally no hip sockets AT ALL and huge arthritic changes, whose owners had no clue at all, its shown up on an xray for something else, and because the dog was fit and lean for work, they just didn't notice, but the dog would have been in severe pain that whole time. These dogs are typically the ones owners will say 'oh he's great at work but don't let the kids near him' or 'he's a fantastic dog on the sheep but he can't be trusted in the house/pub/car...' etc Clear signs that the dogs are not happy but its something that can be ignored in the lifestyle they lead...

If it can't be ignored or affects the dogs work, the dog is put down, move to the next dog.

Pet dog owners are generally not happy to live with dogs who are in pain, exhibit behaviour problems as a result of that pain, or to just put the dog down and get a new one.

So yeah, IF you can find a working dog breeder, and you want to work your dog, and they are doing proper health testing and have been for generations of these dogs (because just health testing the parents but no results for grandparents, great grandparents etc, is not particularly useful!)... thats a good choice.

If you don't intend to work your dog, if your lifestyle and home life doesn't really match up to that of the breeders.... might not be the smart choice at all.

Please have a read up on how to spot puppy farmed pups, they can be sneaky and show you in a home setting. Someone like dogs trust, rspca/sspca, pdsa will have good information.

we went to a breed rescue and got a lovely 6 year old Lhasa who was being bullied by the other dogs. She occasionally gave up puppies if they weren’t going to make the show ring. I could do a whole other thread on that but won’t!

I'm not keen on FB because of the potential for puppy farming. But I will try the livestock route. A collie not suited for herding would be perfect.
Its not yet- we're not in the right space yet - but I can start looking at options

Do be sure to ask why its not suited for herding (not something any farmer is likely know at under 6 months btw)...

Theres 'not really interested in actually moving sheep' and then theres 'bites them so hard the sheep are full of holes'.

I can imagine you want the former, not the latter. I can imagine a lot of working sheepdog breeders are not going to tell you which it is until you dig very deeply.

If you want a collie that isn't really suited to herding, buy a pedigree Border Collie show type from a breeder who shows. All the looks, plenty of brains still, but the herding desire is reduced dramatically, as is the desire to stare at, bite and muzzle punch stuff.

Wow, the worst advice I've ever seen on MN (and you had stiff competition). How to guarantee you're buying from a puppy farmer 101.

@Whattodonut I thought you didn't want a pedigree, so why would a collie suit? Or is it snobbery about breeders, and wanting a farm dog for some reason?

I just don't think breeding pedigrees is in itself a good thing. I believe it creates a smaller gene pool and results in overly "bred" dogs with a focus on arbitrary characteristics that aren't necessarily best for the dog.
I guess collies are less bred for that reason. But thats because my experience is with collies probably and working dogs. I'm sure its true of other breeds too

Useful thread OP as similar here. Responsible small pet owner for years so the DC could learn to take care and help out - now walk.

I don’t want a ‘designer dog’ but similarly would rather a puppy and am willing to invest in training. It will be next year or later for us, but hard to find one in a rescue.

Collies are pedigrees...